/r/ffxivdiscussion: What would a successful 8.0 job rework look like to you?

[Swordsman]

There's a good thread on /r/ffxivdiscussion going regarding the topic of 8.0 job reworks. It's got more than a few good suggestions there, so I'm going to help spread awareness of the thread by posting it here on the official forums.

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Original Post:

Yoshi P has said that a major job system overhaul is slated for 8.0. What would you consider a successful rework? Harder jobs? Less button bloat? End of the 2 minute meta? Something crazier like talent trees and specs?

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Notable Comments:

More varied damage profiles. Not every job must have a 120s burst as its strongest point. Some can have continuous damage, some can have different low CD actions to juggle, some can still stay with the 120s burst (although the strength of buffs would have to be addressed).
Fillers should also ideally be relatively entertaining, at least of some jobs, and not a mindless 1-2-3 spam.

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I don't know. I give up. They can do whatever. (Not a good comment, but it's definitely popular)

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I'd personally like them to dial hard into class utility.
Rotation and button wise is whatever and they can simply rip a lot of PVP things to change it up, but they can do a lot of cool thematic things with utility if they just dropped some cookie cutter stuff like rdm/smn only having res or the idea of "selfish" and whatever prange is right now.
Buttons that can be pressed with skill expression (like tengetsu on samurai), or stuff that is felt in combat scenarios (like expedience) are things I want every class to have.

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I miss being able to read the room and contribute. I remember having TP and MP songs as bard, and I felt really useful, or at least a lot more than I feel I contribute now. I liked being a little more reactive, I guess? I don't want TP back but there have to be other ways to make that kind of gameplay possible again.

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Get rid of the raid buff 2 minute meta:
Remove group buffs from most jobs. Maybe everyone except Dancer and Bard as they're more support oriented, but then I'd like Machinist to support as well.
Give each job a unique gameplay rotation not all based around big buffs on even minutes and small buffs on odd minutes, and balance jobs by potency per minute.

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I feel like people are overhyping a throwaway line Yoshida said. I don't expect anything out of the ordinary.

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The PVP rework gave all the jobs unique traits and gimmicks.
Just… do that for the PVE ones too.
I don’t care if it makes for the worst balancing the game has ever seen initially. It wouldn’t be boring. Blank slating all the current jobs is probably the only way they can get out of the apparent design dead end they’ve made for themselves. I’m sure people would be pissed that their beloved classes have been changed but since that happens once or twice an expansion anyway (I see you this time BLM) it’s something everyone has either already dealt with or will end up dealing with regardless.

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2 minute meta is gone. Raid buffs in general (aside from bard, dancer, and Astro) could be completely removed or be purely personal (ie brotherhood still generates chakras for the monk but doesn’t increase party damage) or purely utility.
Offensive toolkits radically diversified. Some strict, some proc, some priority, some plate spinning etc etc.
Tanks actually position, interrupt, stun, mitigate, and tank. Like tanks.
Healers go back to being how they were pre-ShB and also have radically diversified kits.
Alternatively to all of the above, just copy/paste pvp jobs with a handful of extra buttons as needed. Genuinely by give-a-f***-o-meter is basically at zero right now. 8.0 is going to have to do some MAJOR heavy lifting to get me to care about 14 like I did before about the mid point of endwalker.


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Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...ork_look_like/

Feel free to visit the thread yourselves or discuss this topic below, cheers.

[Collin_Sky]

People are going to get a huge shock if they want SE to get rid of homogenization and make every job unique.

The community can't handle PCT being as good as it is currently but somehow wants SE to do that but for every job.

[Musashidon]

man people are going to be mad when they find out yoshi p never said 8.0 is a job overhaul.

[NegativeS]

1. Vary the skill floors (and ceilings).
Not every job needs to be able to be played by Joe Moron who just discovered that computers exist yesterday. BLM is/was so popular for so long because it had a higher skill floor, so do this for more jobs. Keep some jobs easier if you have to so Joe Moron doesn't feel left out if you have to--SMN, WAR, and WHM will always be there for him.

2. Vary the playstyles of Tanks and Healers more.
Currently, all Tanks have the same playstyle--123 combo, press a button to make it more powerful, build a bar, spend on capstone abilities. Healers are no different--basic heal, heal with seasoning, AOE heal, AOE heal with seasoning, CD that copies something from another job, capstone that may as well do infinite potency healing. Boring. I hate it. How did WoW manage to make 7 healers and 6 tanks insanely unique and fun and XIV can't do it with 4?

3. Give healers more robust DPS options.
Doesn't have to be a full cDPS rotation, anything more than one button to press over and over would be an unfathomable improvement.

Problems with their over-adherence to the 2MM aside, if at least one of these things happen I will be over the moon.

Also,

4. DON'T TAKE AWAY RAISE FROM SMN AND RDM.
I WILL QUIT THE GAME IF THIS HAPPENS.

[ryouma17]

getting rid of button bloat is my top to do, the 1+2+3 combo + filler is outdated we need something new

also give blackmages something to do other then spam fire+ice with the occasional thunder/flare we still dont even have ultima a FF black magic tradition

[Collin_Sky]

4. DON'T TAKE AWAY RAISE FROM SMN AND RDM.
I WILL QUIT THE GAME IF THIS HAPPENS.

Bad take. Caster raise is a huge problem.
(Either give it to them all or remove it altogether, I don't care which)

[Valence]

Scrap whatever is even left of that insipid thing they call a RPG battle system that we have those days, and reflesh everything out with many more variables than just damage. Without variables, how do people even expect them to bring variety to job design and identity? People quote pvp jobs, and I agree, they feel great and diverse and unique, but why? Because they have more than one stupid variable to play around and juggle with. If pvp was all about damage and nothing else, you'd not get much variety at all.

[Kohashi]

1. less button bloat
2. the ability to create a personalized combo chain
3. Better animation to cut down on clunkiness
4. Less visual noise

[Collin_Sky]

1. less button bloat
2. the ability to create a personalized combo chain
3. Better animation to cut down on clunkiness
4. Less visual noise

All of these things already exist if you're in the know.

[Jeeqbit]

What would you consider a successful rework? Harder jobs? Less button bloat? End of the 2 minute meta? Something crazier like talent trees and specs?

• A system that allows players to choose an easy spec, or a hard spec, with it defaulting to the easy spec. That way, people who want "hard and engaging" with "keep-up buffs" and "additional effects" and complex interactions between attacks can choose the other one.
• More unique aspects to the jobs again. It's alright for one to be slightly disadvantaged or to achieve the same thing in a different way like they used to.
• No more fixed timeframe metas. If we need to remove raid-wide damage buffs, then so be it. Damage buffs could also be changed to not be multiplicative. I'd rather this so that jobs can have vastly different rotation lengths. To a degree they may all have to align with, say, a DPS check 6 minutes into a fight, but a 6 minute meta is better than a 2 minute meta because they can all achieve that differently (1 minute rotation, 1.5 minute rotation, 3 minute rotation, etc).
• Role spec (for example Paladin and Warrior having a healer spec, or Samurai and Ninja having a tank spec) would be nice. I don't think this needs to be anything crazy... just swap their role actions and traits out, and include a tank stance in role actions.
• Unique animations for role actions - for example, Shield Bash can replace Low Blow.
• More ideas for utility like Rescue, Aetherial Manipulation, Arm's Length, Stuns, Interrupts, Reprisal, etc.
• Many people want more complex power progression, so maybe a special materia slot where you loot a materia from specific fights that influences your abilities differently, dpending on the fight you got it from.

Oh, and Astrologian I'd like to go back to being more like 5.0 release, personally.

Tanks actually position, interrupt, stun, mitigate, and tank. Like tanks.

All this. Mitigation should be actually needed. Trash mobs and bosses can have interrupts, which the ShB dungeons did well. Positioning bosses was a pain point, especially for new players, but auto-centering isn't the answer and causes its own problems. I'm glad they've at least significantly reduced this, but it still happens occasionally.