Damage gap closer should vanish

[Arohk]

modern fights are designed for ~100% melee uptime.

Wicked Thunder would disagree.

[Rithy255]

In a lot of ways dual-skills like that are very smart design. Of course gaining uptime is usually the highest gain of DPS, so that's the best use of a gapcloser, but do you really want to hold one for that? -> Actual in-fight decisionmaking

The reason it doesn't work comes from a wholly different direction: Melee DPS, and their lack of emotional stability. So as melees struggled with the "classic" melee balance (significantly higher DPS output but significant lack of uptime lest you die in many fights), modern fights are designed for ~100% melee uptime. And as a result, there's never a reason for a tank to hold back a (damaging) gapcloser to actually gapclose with. That second part is what is missing! If we had a need to close gaps in fights, gapcloser balance would be interesting if they also deal damage!

I do remember saving gap closer in m2s a lot because you had to disengage a lot for that fight, theirs actually a lot of instances where you should be keeping gap closer in modern design, I haven't attempted the new ultimate or m4s yet so I might not have knowledge on those fights, I'm a fairly casual raider.

At least for me theirs been a lot of cases where I do actually want to save gap closer, but it's very fight dependent, which is something I like.

[Arohk]

I do remember saving gap closer in m2s a lot because you had to disengage a lot for that fight, theirs actually a lot of instances where you should be keeping gap closer in modern design, I haven't attempted the new ultimate or m4s yet so I might not have knowledge on those fights, I'm a fairly casual raider.

M4 has A LOT of mechanics where you have to get out of melee range, thats why Paladin is by far the best tank for this fight, you can always keep Holy spirit for when you have to move away from the boss, gunbreaker has the hardest time there.

[Carighan]

Wicked Thunder would disagree.

Oh, those 15s not being in melee range in a 12 minute fight make all the difference, I'm sure! Call off the design team, M4S is basically a ranged-only fight!

(and even then, it's difficult to find much else, and this is in Dawntrial, which already marginally improved the design over Endwalker!)

[Valence]

Melee DPS when they're asked to actually deal with their ranged constraints is really something to behold those days.

[Elizasylen]

I mean eh i wouldn’t be that against it. I’m ok with how it is but if they take the damage away i wouldn’t mind either

[Oizen]

M4 has A LOT of mechanics where you have to get out of melee range, thats why Paladin is by far the best tank for this fight, you can always keep Holy spirit for when you have to move away from the boss, gunbreaker has the hardest time there.

It does? Like theres some but its not major.

Off the top of my head theres:
Bewitching Flight: Miss like 1GCD as you step to the wall or back
Witch Hunt can be timed pretty well to not miss a GCD if you're fast
EE2: Can either be miss nothing or miss 1 GCD depending on what you roll, should be noted that you short lightings can just stand in the long 2 lightnings effect for uptime at the low cost of an additional bleed
Then you don't see melee specific downtime until all the way into Chain Lightning, which is again is RNG if you even miss anything.


This is an improvement over Endwalker for sure, but I still wouldn't say this is enough to make Phys Range even on par with Melees.
Infact its so little that Dark Knights singular ranged GCD (that isnt unmend) ends up covering Chain Lightning if you get a bad pattern so I've honestly never felt like I wasnt just hitting the boss nonstop.

[Carighan]

until all the way into Chain Lightning, which is again is RNG if you even miss anything.

And I had someone weave perfectly around the AoEs of that today, which was a sight to behold. And I already had swiftcast pressed to rezz them! xD

[SWATomega]

I have a strong belief that dash skills should be purely a movement utility ability and not deal damage, is it not convenient to use a movement ability for maximum damage to use dash. Sometimes I do not have a dash available in Savage content since it is used in my opener as WAR, (M2S and M4S as examples) and I suffer later on since I can't dash in to keep my uptime.

However, the core programming of the dash must be changed to function the same in dungeons if damage is removed, What we see in dungeons with the DRK and GNB is less effective dash to get the agro for the pack, it is a delayed effect. For those who play all the tanks the GNB and DRK dash feel bad for add pulls, where they don't target you as quickly compared to PLD and WAR. The damage aspect allows a more consistent add-pack agro. What they should do is apply a "Fake damage hit" which it simulates a damage registration when doing 0 damage in addition to the agro generation, this will keep the responsiveness on the "hit" so the dash feels the same and keep the utility.

Though the 450 potency in WAR (every 90 sec) and 300 from PLD (60 sec) has to be spread out within the kit to keep damage the same, for WAR it could be added in the Inner release as what they did for DRK new Blood spiller combo under delirium, have argument Fel Cleaves for 3 hits. PLD could have the damage added to Confiteor combo.

This is all pen and paper, though it is a lot easier to say "WE CAN DO THIS OR THAT", but in reality, they might have thought of this already. who knows?

[Carighan]

I have a strong belief that dash skills should be purely a movement utility ability and not deal damage, is it not convenient to use a movement ability for maximum damage to use dash. Sometimes I do not have a dash available in Savage content since it is used in my opener as WAR, (M2S and M4S as examples) and I suffer later on since I can't dash in to keep my uptime.

I'd go a step further in refining this - but I do agree with the idea.

Dash skills should not be a damage gain.

That is, we can have very strong ones, so long as they're GCDs. Or oGCD ones that deal no damage (you got your GCD free to do that if you want to, they need to work on reducing the delay here so mobs haven't run off by the time). Or you can have ones that spend a resource that is inefficient to spend on the damaging oGCD gapcloser, as a higher non-gapclosing oGCD exists. In any case, they'd never be used rotationall, but merely for their intended use: Gapclosing.