How not to be a mentor

[VeyaAkemi]

I will also say that I know from experience people in this game are notoriously averse to advice and feedback, here's a situation that happened not too long ago:

I was leveling GNB, and got Akadaemia Anyder on roulette, party was me, an AST, and two DNC, halfway into the last pull, the Healer DCs, and we wait a bit for them, the entire time, the DNC had Dance Partnered each other, and since I main DNC and know the ins and outs of the job pretty well, I bring it up, I forget the exact words but I remember the tone, so paraphrased "By the way, you shouldn't Dance Partner another DNC, the buff doesn't stack with itself even from different sources, so if there are two DNC in a dungeon, it's best to Partner the Tank and Healer so the buff at least is going somewhere.".

I get complete radio silence from that, even though I felt I was pretty passive in how I phrased it, and decide to not push the issue, Healer comes back, and we start the fight, about 40%, everyone but me dies, so I go in chat "Should I wipe?", and immediately they respond "Nah, just clear if you can", and well, I have a stockpile of Hyper-Potions specifically for such situations, and I am able to clear the boss without trouble thanks to a couple potions even if it took a bit, but it stuck to me how they deliberately ignored the previous advice since they were obviously reading chat, it wasn't a situation where it was worth getting upset or even annoyed over, just notable enough to commit to memory.

This is why I raise an eyebrow when someone starts complaining about advice, my situation was one where they didn't respond at all, but I have seen so many over the years where people will snap back to the gentlest advice, it especially bugs me because I have benefited from such unsolicited advice before, when I started playing I was an absolute Curebot WHM, spamming Cure 2 and keeping full Regen/Medica II uptime, it wasn't until a run of Castrum Merid where the Tank went "By the way you don't need to heal me so much, I can stay alive, just use Holy when you can", and I was able to immediately internalize the advice and improve, so I tend to find it disheartening when someone is so quick to shoot down advice given by others, even if completely unsolicited, and much as OP claims have been doing otherwise, we do have solid evidence of how they play the game in content that is completely casual, so it doesn't come off as if the advice was truly needless.

[Kohashi]

I will also say that I know from experience people in this game are notoriously averse to advice and feedback, here's a situation that happened not too long ago:

I was leveling GNB, and got Akadaemia Anyder on roulette, party was me, an AST, and two DNC, halfway into the last pull, the Healer DCs, and we wait a bit for them, the entire time, the DNC had Dance Partnered each other, and since I main DNC and know the ins and outs of the job pretty well, I bring it up, I forget the exact words but I remember the tone, so paraphrased "By the way, you shouldn't Dance Partner another DNC, the buff doesn't stack with itself even from different sources, so if there are two DNC in a dungeon, it's best to Partner the Tank and Healer so the buff at least is going somewhere.".

The perfect example of a terrible advice. Since I have also main-ed DNC for a while now, allow me to teach you further.

The quote is directly taken from the balance discord since it discusses in depth each point.

Do dancer buffs stack? Should I partner another dancer? Do buffs apply to pets?
Standard Finish:
The standard finish buffs will stack if the partner icons appear different. This means that if two dancers partner each other, their buffs will stack.
The standard finish buffs will not stack if the partner icons are the same. This means that a player who has been partnered by multiple dancers will only receive one buff.

Technical Finish:
The damage buff will not stack, and subsequent techs will simply refresh the buff.
The esprit buff will stack, meaning that a dancer who has their technical step overwritten by another dancer will still receive increased esprit for the full duration.

Devilment:
The buff will not stack, and subsequent devilments will simply refresh the buff.

Pets:
All dancer buffs apply to pets/summons.

In conclusion:
For 4 man dungeons with two dancers, unless the other dancer is severely underperforming, you should partner the other dancer.
In content with multiple dancers, you should ideally try to stagger technical window timings so that you do not overwrite each others buffs.

[VeyaAkemi]

The perfect example of a terrible advice.

If that's the case, I have been misinformed by multiple people for years, and I apologize for perpetuating the bad game of telephone, but I was more focused on the lack of response, if they had responded "No really, check this <guide source>", I would've then and have stood corrected, but that didn't happen, there was no communication whatsoever.

[Kohashi]

If that's the case, I have been misinformed by multiple people for years, and I apologize for perpetuating the bad game of telephone, but I was more focused on the lack of response, if they had responded "No really, check this <guide source>", I would've then and have stood corrected, but that didn't happen, there was no communication whatsoever.

That was the case before, however, the DNC has been changed and this is valid for a while now (2 years at this point).

[VeyaAkemi]

That was the case before, however, the DNC has been changed and this is valid for a while now (2 years at this point).

Ah, so it is a pre-pull Doton situation where it used to work a specific way, and now it doesn't anymore, so the old information got stuck around?

...or is the Doton thing something I been wrong this entire time about too? now I am legitimately questioning everything I know, the way I understood it, is that since using Hide will reset your Jutsu charges, you'd place Doton immediately before pull, Hide, and leave the Doton there for the boss to be pulled over temporarily, and you'd get an extra chunk of damage for basically free, but then they made Hide also dispel Doton, and it is no longer the case, but you still get NIN who insist in using their first Jutsu charge in a fight on Doton, even after the boss has been pulled.

But see what I mean though? I was wrong about something, I have been corrected, and now I will be a better player moving forward, this is what I want to happen in game advice, this is what has happened to me multiple times, and we absolutely had time for a brief conversation in that dungeon, the Healer took a few more minutes to come back, if they had pointed it to me, I'd have checked it up after the dungeon, and have done this small bit of improvement a month sooner.

I guess I should make it clear, I want everyone to be open for advice and discussion over those things, outdated and wrong information gets passed around all the time as well, it's best if we discuss it.

Why would they? 90% chance the person would double down and start arguing, just like this OP has been gaslighting us about the mentor that dared correct them.

I would rather people not go through their lives assuming the worst out of others, regardless how "likely" it is that they are going to be irrational.

[AllenThyl]

I would rather people not go through their lives assuming the worst out of others, regardless how "likely" it is that they are going to be irrational.

It's selection bias. The people that prompt others to actually speak up are the fringe, who are griefing others either by maliciousness ("I don't want to do AoE, I am practicing my single target rotation"), or by willful ignorance ("Don't tell me how to play" / "it's just a game" / "no one cares"). None of these attributes are conducive to a state of mind that will make them accept advice. Not knowing something doesn't mean someone is ignorant, but being ignorant will usually result in a lack of knowledge. That's where the 90% come from, and it's sadly a pretty good estimate. Even if the person in question doesn't speak up, some enabler typically will.

[Ath192]

I would rather people not go through their lives assuming the worst out of others, regardless how "likely" it is that they are going to be irrational.

Really? I would suggest you stay in safe countries then. Because this is key to surviving, if you go anywhere in the world that isn't a highly policed developed nation you will not last long, and even then, any scammer could easily dupe you in the safest of places.

[VeyaAkemi]

Really? I would suggest you stay in safe countries then. Because this is key to surviving, if you go anywhere in the world that isn't a highly policed developed nation you will not last long, and even then, any scammer could easily dupe you in the safest of places.

I am obviously talking about in-game where there is no actual personal risk, you don't need to extrapolate what I am saying in a MMO forum to all walks of life, Allen above you seemed perfectly able to understand the tone.

[Kohashi]

Ah, so it is a pre-pull Doton situation where it used to work a specific way, and now it doesn't anymore, so the old information got stuck around?

...or is the Doton thing something I been wrong this entire time about too? now I am legitimately questioning everything I know, the way I understood it, is that since using Hide will reset your Jutsu charges, you'd place Doton immediately before pull, Hide, and leave the Doton there for the boss to be pulled over temporarily, and you'd get an extra chunk of damage for basically free, but then they made Hide also dispel Doton, and it is no longer the case, but you still get NIN who insist in using their first Jutsu charge in a fight on Doton, even after the boss has been pulled.

But see what I mean though? I was wrong about something, I have been corrected, and now I will be a better player moving forward, this is what I want to happen in game advice, this is what has happened to me multiple times, and we absolutely had time for a brief conversation in that dungeon, the Healer took a few more minutes to come back, if they had pointed it to me, I'd have checked it up after the dungeon, and have done this small bit of improvement a month sooner.

I guess I should make it clear, I want everyone to be open for advice and discussion over those things, outdated and wrong information gets passed around all the time as well, it's best if we discuss it.



I would rather people not go through their lives assuming the worst out of others, regardless how "likely" it is that they are going to be irrational.

I mean, to be fair jobs are changed constantly some with a higher impact than others but, take this as a humbling experience. You started with " I am a DNC main and I know my stuff", and ended up with " but people told me this" Don't dodge, don't shift the blame now, don't turn around the focus. Take the L and move on.

You had the best intentions, but mistakes happen also dungeons aren't the best place to carry these conversations. Not when there is information readily available.

I have played dnc for 2 years at this point and I still think I am at trash panda level. I still think I have a long way to go and I seek guidance to this day.

Anyway, happy read and happy dancing .: https://bit.ly/DNC-DT and https://bit.ly/DNCGuideDT . Both links can be found in the balance discord.

[VeyaAkemi]

I mean, to be fair jobs are changed constantly some with a higher impact than others but, take this as a humbling experience. You started with " I am a DNC main and I know my stuff", and ended up with " but people told me this" Don't dodge, don't shift the blame now, don't turn around the focus. Take the L and move on.

You had the best intentions, but mistakes happen also dungeons aren't the best place to carry these conversations. Not when there is information readily available.

I have played dnc for 2 years at this point and I still think I am at trash panda level. I still think I have a long way to go and I seek guidance to this day.

Anyway, happy read and happy dancing .: https://bit.ly/DNC-DT and https://bit.ly/DNCGuideDT . Both links can be found in the balance discord.

I have to admit that I have a bad habit of skimming through patch notes because of how I process information, I am extremely bad at processing text and far more of a visual learner, and I usually process Job changes by taking it to a dummy and hitting it for 5 minutes to visualize what changed, I will check The Balance if there are potency or skill changes that seem like will meaningfully affect the flow of the job, but not otherwise, so it leads anything that isn't visible while doing my usual tests slipping through the figurative cracks unless I have been explicitly told about it.

It goes for everything, a raid leader can spend half an hour explaining mechanics and I will barely understand it, but then I see a few diagrams or a video, or see the mechanic myself, and get it immediately.

And yes, it has been humbling, I wasn't trying to shift blame, at least not consciously, just trying to explain how I reached that information.

Oh really? Like some trolls haven't duped people into saying things that are reportable just so they can get you banned? Don't die on this hill. It's just a bad take. There's a reason this MMO has become silent.

I am sorry, but if you can be duped so easily into saying something reportable, you shouldn't buy any bridges, no matter how good a deal they may seem.

I have always been extremely sociable and talkative in dungeons and raids, so long as I can afford to be without stopping using my skills, and never had any issue in years, just maintaining a degree of politeness and amicability will prevent you from ever crossing any lines.