Why don't we have more DPS abilities ?

[Naychan]

Personally, I'd love that.

Make ~every fight have a random combination of:

* Constant pulsing damage on the group that requires constant healer attention.
* Every autoattack 1-2 non-tank targets (random) are also hit for 25%-40% (random) of their health.
* Between each autoattack, a non-telegraphed line-AoE or circle AoE is shot into the room for 10%-25% of people's health (random).
* All autoattacks cleave for a portion of their damage into everyone in a medium range from the boss, essentially always hitting melee DPS.

Constant need for low~moderate healing, that'd quickly outpace even the overblown oGCD selections the current healers have (all the big hits happen on top, but are slightly reduced since people might be randomly at 60%-70% HP!), requiring a steady stream of small GCD based healing.

Once we got that, shift some of the current oGCD timers into GCD stuff, even if the CD is kept, and ideally add ways the offensive abilities interact with these CDs or abilities (reduce CD, turn them oGCD, remove next mana cost, etc).

I don't think I'd need any more damage if I had actual healing to do, tbh. I play healer because I want to heal, if I want to focus on doing damage I'd be playing a DPS!

The rest of the community would go ballistic about it being to hard (push button get pizza). Also while healing works this way in many games ffxiv is not built for that. Content should be doable within 30-45 min for a dungeon and 45-60 for a 24 person raid. If they did what you suggested it might take longer to clear and they are worried it would frustrate people. Also, not everybody could keep up with that type of healing therefor we would need skilled players which defeats the purpose of dumbing down healers so everybody can play them (I'm not saying anybody is not skilled, I'm just looking at it the way yoshi envisions it). I agree our focus should not be dps but with all the healing we do in general content what else is there to do?

[Carighan]

The rest of the community would go ballistic about it being to hard (push button get pizza). Also while healing works this way in many games ffxiv is not built for that. Content should be doable within 30-45 min for a dungeon and 45-60 for a 24 person raid. If they did what you suggested it might take longer to clear and they are worried it would frustrate people.

Not really, comparatively speaking most games have less health on their enemies than here since not everyone is a "DPS and also xyz", in particular not healers. Yeah I know GW2 exists but unlike FFXIV, GW2 was quite explicitly built for this "everyone is DPS first and foremost" and doesn't even have roles in the traditional sense.

Also, not everybody could keep up with that type of healing therefor we would need skilled players which defeats the purpose of dumbing down healers so everybody can play them (I'm not saying anybody is not skilled, I'm just looking at it the way yoshi envisions it). I agree our focus should not be dps but with all the healing we do in general content what else is there to do?

That's kinda my point, the damage should not be so high that you have to nerve-wrackingly heal like a maniac, rather you "spam" healing. The way you "spam" your nuke now. Nothing special. In easier content like dungeons, you should be "fine" just spamming Cure/Benefic/etc, and sometimes casting the odd group variant. You can do much better (and in turn gain time for some nukes/AoEs), but it would not be required.

And then scale for normal / extreme / savage / ultimate / criterion savage from there. The last basically works like I'd envision things on many trash pulls, tbh.

If WHM is the easy healer why does it have arguably the highest non glare ratio of any healer

Technically speaking, I cast Glare less often on my Astro than on my White Mage...

[Connor]

YoshiP himself mentioned that's not what he wants healing to be during the EW media tour, though we don't know if that's still what he thinks.

He also explains next in that clip that gearing up will reduce healing required, so it's inevitable that they'll end up with more healing downtime.

Wait, why ask a question then immediately come at the replier with an interview about how any affirmative answer to that question is objectively wrong. Why did you even bother asking? It comes across as trying to manufacture ‘gotcha moments’

I don’t know why everyone keeps acting like pushing this ‘healers can’t healer they must be dps-lite’ mindset will solve anything when that’s literally exactly what we have right now. They want 99% of their casts of to be DPS? They technically have it already. It’s just all focused on one button. More DPS abilities? Like the ones we got this expansion (on a shitty 120s cool-down)?

What’s tiring to me is seeing people constantly arguing about how healers need to change then immediately reverting to the exact mindset that’s keeping them stuck as they are.

I mean aren’t we forgetting he’s also said in interviews that the purpose of healers is not intended to be dps? (Inb4 ‘but week 1 savage prog dps checks!!!!’ lol)

So they can’t be real healers, but by design they can’t do anything else. So…we get what we have now; one dps button, one dot, and the rest is overwhelmingly powerful healing completely disproportionate to damage output. Unless people are satisfied with that I don’t really see the point in invoking the same ‘game design’ that’s forced healers into this corner in the first place.
Yoshi doesn’t want healers to be healing, he doesn’t want them to be dps’ing too much either, they can’t do party support because idk that’s a Monk’s job apparently. So…what can they do then…? Change the design or keep it going; based on a lot of ‘healer posts’ it looks like we’re more likely to get the latter…

[Supersnow845]

Wait, why ask a question then immediately come at the replier with an interview about how any affirmative answer to that question is objectively wrong. Why did you even bother asking? It comes across as trying to manufacture ‘gotcha moments’

I don’t know why everyone keeps acting like pushing this ‘healers can’t healer they must be dps-lite’ mindset will solve anything when that’s literally exactly what we have right now. They want 99% of their casts of to be DPS? They technically have it already. It’s just all focused on one button. More DPS abilities? Like the ones we got this expansion (on a shitty 120s cool-down)?

What’s tiring to me is seeing people constantly arguing about how healers need to change then immediately reverting to the exact mindset that’s keeping them stuck as they are.

I mean aren’t we forgetting he’s also said in interviews that the purpose of healers is not intended to be dps? (Inb4 ‘but week 1 savage prog dps checks!!!!’ lol)

So they can’t be real healers, but by design they can’t do anything else. So…we get what we have now; one dps button, one dot, and the rest is overwhelmingly powerful healing completely disproportionate to damage output. Unless people are satisfied with that I don’t really see the point in invoking the same ‘game design’ that’s forced healers into this corner in the first place.
Yoshi doesn’t want healers to be healing, he doesn’t want them to be dps’ing too much either, they can’t do party support because idk that’s a Monk’s job apparently. So…what can they do then…? Change the design or keep it going; based on a lot of ‘healer posts’ it looks like we’re more likely to get the latter…

Because the game design isn’t inherently limiting to more interesting healing even if there is a limit to how high they could jack healing up

You could literally port HW SCH 1 to 1 into the modern game and it would still be able to clear all content. The game design is limiting from the perspective of making certain aspects of healing more interesting but the current encounter design itself doesn’t preclude well designed healers, they just don’t actually fix the healers

Until they actually present us with encounters that couldn’t be cleared by a ported HW SCH to me the problem clearly remains with job design, not encounter design. Is encounter design still a stale mess; you bet it is. But it’s not the core problem of why the modern healers are crap

[Azurarok]

Yeah sorry I remembered the quote after asking.

But the item level bit was a point I argued before too, and that isn't the kind of healing I really want either, so I'm most likely being more bitter than I should be.

[Connor]

Yeah sorry I remembered the quote after asking.

But the item level bit was a point I argued before too, and that isn't the kind of healing I really want either, so I'm most likely being more bitter than I should be.

If there’s one thing we’ve learned over the years it’s that the devs will selectively take any fuel they can get to justify their extremely unsatisfactory decisions.
I.E ‘healers (like three of them) complained about savage dps uptime so we condensed the entire thing into one button and will exclusively add overpowered oGCDs heals from now on’, ‘people complained about their buff timers needing synch’d so we make every single one have the same timer’, etc. They don’t seem to care whether it’s representative of what people ‘want’ as a whole as long as they can use it to justify their poor decisions.

Obviously it’s an objective fact that healers dps in FFXIV. But everytime that gets pointed out and used against others to funnel the argument towards ‘give them more attacks’ (which, again, technically they did lol), it’s giving the devs the message ‘oh look we’re doing things right [because this one guy’s feedback suggests so]’.

What devs needs to realise is that it’s their exact design philosophy that’s at the root of all the healer issues in the first place; they can’t just ‘add a dps ogcd’ and fix the problem, nor can they just scale healing higher if toolkit potencies stay the same. They need to make actual substantive changes to the design relative to player feedback and their actual vision of what healers should be. Not just throwing band aids over a gaping wound lol

[NobleWinter]

I've been a healer main since ARR and the healing experience got better in Heavensward which was amazing and then I had a few complaints in Stormblood when things got simplified and then Shadowbringers rolled around and ruined everything. I'm now currently unsubscribed because healing is just downright painful. I'm not having fun and that's what the game is for. It should be fun to heal and not just while you're learning for a few months as a brand new player. This game is intended to hold interest for YEARS on end and the devs have completely lost the plot when it comes to healer design for enjoyment and longevity. Play long enough and every healer is the same. Every encounter is the same. It's all boring and infuriating is the final stop for any healer player with a brain. This game makes too much money to have absolutely no one putting any effort into healer skills, animations, lore, etc. Why does Ruin 2 still look like manure after a decade? When will WHM be able to use a lily aoe heal in the first Ultimates? How many failed card reworks will the game see for Astro. Why are their two different classes that are both just functionally Scholar? It is pure insanity at this point.

[Mesarthim]

I've been a healer main since ARR and the healing experience got better in Heavensward which was amazing and then I had a few complaints in Stormblood when things got simplified and then Shadowbringers rolled around and ruined everything. I'm now currently unsubscribed because healing is just downright painful. I'm not having fun and that's what the game is for. It should be fun to heal and not just while you're learning for a few months as a brand new player. This game is intended to hold interest for YEARS on end and the devs have completely lost the plot when it comes to healer design for enjoyment and longevity. Play long enough and every healer is the same. Every encounter is the same. It's all boring and infuriating is the final stop for any healer player with a brain. This game makes too much money to have absolutely no one putting any effort into healer skills, animations, lore, etc. Why does Ruin 2 still look like manure after a decade? When will WHM be able to use a lily aoe heal in the first Ultimates? How many failed card reworks will the game see for Astro. Why are their two different classes that are both just functionally Scholar? It is pure insanity at this point.

I started in 3.2 as a healer main, and it stayed that way until I heard about the shadowbringer changes. It was a great expansion but by the gods it ruined my interest in healing. I now have a priority of tank >= Dps >>>>> Healing for roulette choice, only queueing if even tank times are slow. I'm only touching sage because it's the healer I dislike the least. If you asked a friend of mine you could receive a book-sized rant from me about AST (which is fine now but doesn't change the fact my job main for 1/3 of HW and all of SB was nuked from orbit).

Healing as far as FFXIV goes is not something I ever do to enjoy myself now, it is done because it's a last resort. Also hot take from myself but the 30s dot is boring because they do not interact with kits at all. I'll still take it because healers... really don't have anything else. Sage has a decent number of other attacks but they all have gigantic cooldowns so it all boils down to dosis spam.

[LynxDubh]

I started in 3.2 as a healer main, and it stayed that way until I heard about the shadowbringer changes. It was a great expansion but by the gods it ruined my interest in healing. I now have a priority of tank >= Dps >>>>> Healing for roulette choice, only queueing if even tank times are slow. I'm only touching sage because it's the healer I dislike the least. If you asked a friend of mine you could receive a book-sized rant from me about AST (which is fine now but doesn't change the fact my job main for 1/3 of HW and all of SB was nuked from orbit).

Healing as far as FFXIV goes is not something I ever do to enjoy myself now, it is done because it's a last resort. Also hot take from myself but the 30s dot is boring because they do not interact with kits at all. I'll still take it because healers... really don't have anything else. Sage has a decent number of other attacks but they all have gigantic cooldowns so it all boils down to dosis spam.

I joined in 3.2 as well as an AST main. Once ShB hit I switched to DNC, and now that DT has made it unfun, it's hard for me to keep interest in the game as a whole. At this point my skills as a healer have degraded so far due to the simplified kits. Plus the attack spam just makes me bored and distracted now making my play even worse, ADHD has not been kind to my healer gameplay.

[Nero-Voidstails]

YoshiP himself mentioned that's not what he wants healing to be during the EW media tour, though we don't know if that's still what he thinks.

He also explains next in that clip that gearing up will reduce healing required, so it's inevitable that they'll end up with more healing downtime.

that is to be expect obviously haha but I will say this when a tank doesn't need healing in any content is a problem and even more when a ultimate is clear without healer. yes they use tanks with heavy healing and that's the problem as long as healing are on other job the less and less healer are needed. Most healer doesn't complain because they can't heal they complain because the balance isn't there at all. We don't want more DPS button we want to feel more important and not just a green DPS. if I want more button I will go DPS too I don't say all healing is bad on other job but should be tone down heavily or! Have tanks play differently and more risky like warrior could use more HP and less defence trust me the healers would be healing them even if it's not often it's still more.

I just think that the balance of all role have been broken and no one want to see it because everything is about DPS not because a fight need more esuna or doom check like monastery and the doom of dead end that need to be fully heal to not diecas little as they feel just that make a healer feel important and needed but if they can fully heal without your help you aren't needed. so right now a healer is nothing more then a weak and pathetic DPS.

for me I just want the game to be more balanced between role so everyone feel important I don't want my downtime to be 95% of a battle or a dungeon even