Why don't we have more DPS abilities ?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I maintain the sentiment that healers need better spam. Like they should have some kind of damage mechanic that interacts with their spam spell. Like WHM could have a spell that becomes available after X number of Glares, SCH could get a second DOT spell that has a different duration from Biolysis, AST could get a spell that has its recast time reduced whenever Malefic is cast, and change Toxikon to actually be a part of SGE's damage rotation.

I maintain the sentiment that healing need to be fixed first.
A better DPS rotation is just a band aid on gaping wound that will make us just a third rate DPS that nobody will want.

I maintain the sentiment that they should do both.

I'm personally not looking forward to see them reversing their design trajectory to square one after spending 5-8 years going like this, which means that's likely 3-4 more years of being in the rut while hoping for another good step to be taken.

Fat wishes, I know. :shrug:

[Carighan]

Yeah that's true, ideally both, but frankly I don't mind my DPS being just 2-3 buttons so long as the mechanics are interesting. But increasing healing needed would fix that part (my filler GCD would be heals, not DPS), and that'd in turn open up room for using those 2-3 damage buttons for more interesting things mechanically.

[IDontPetLalas]

I maintain the sentiment that healing need to be fixed first.
A better DPS rotation is just a band aid on gaping wound that will make us just a third rate DPS that nobody will want.

This isn't a game where healers only heal, and that isn't going to change, so I wouldn't expect that both wouldn't be reviewed at the same time. Also, there's that word "rotation' again. As has been discussed ad nauseum, comparing healer DPS to skills to DPS in this game isn't really equivalent. There are multiple ways of adding DPS skills to healers/ integrating DPS skills, etc, blah blah- I could go on but it's been said in detail for literally years in these forums.

So, if anything, healers are worse off and useless now because there are situations when healing isn't required and they are currently a 4th rate DPS, in some cases nobody even wants them. So sure, Square could tweak healing requirements in some situations, but adding in some additional DPS skills for those situations when healing isn't needed, or for occasions when someone is soloing content shouldn't break the game.

[Connor]

Yeah that's true, ideally both, but frankly I don't mind my DPS being just 2-3 buttons so long as the mechanics are interesting. But increasing healing needed would fix that part (my filler GCD would be heals, not DPS), and that'd in turn open up room for using those 2-3 damage buttons for more interesting things mechanically.

I agree with this and personally I think it goes for both ‘healer dps’ and ‘healer healing’.

Like, just increasing the number of DPS / Non-healing actions healers have isn’t going to solve anything if those skills aren’t fun/interesting to use. Like those crappy 120-sec cd follow-ups (Baneful Impaction, Glare IV, Psyche, Oracle). They technically fulfill the request of ‘more dps abilities for healers’, but they don’t really add enough to the jobs to be considered ‘fun’ or ‘interesting’ (at least in my opinion).

Likewise, just increasing the amount of healing isn’t going to solve anything if healing mechanics aren’t actually fun/interesting. If healers need to ‘heal more’ but are still primarily designed to do the vast majority of it with free oGCDs, it wouldn’t really change very much overall.

[Azurarok]

I still think one of the best ways to increase both would be to add more healing-damaging tool kit interaction while curbing some of the oGCD healing, mainly for WHM/SGE since they have the foundations for it.

Whether we say we want more dps or more healing I think the end goal for both is spending less time spending our GCDs on 1 and actually use what other GCD skills we have. WHM does have lily skills but I'd like to use CureII/CureIII/MedicaIII in more meaningful ways outside clutch situations or high-end/ARR content too.

I think the devs (and some of the detractors in the strike thread) don't quite get that. Like with the lv92 skills, I enjoy using GlareIV quite a bit but Psyche just feels like unnecessary bloat most of the time (not that GlareIV doesn't have its own problems).

[Nero-Voidstails]

The problem with healing today isn't the DPS or only healing but having a better balance between the two like my downtime should be doing DPS for sure but my downtime is 90% of the time and I thinks it's where the problem is.


all tanks have healing warrior and paladin are the worst in that regard so all people are like give more DPS but I am like the balance between both isn't a thing I keep my words that I think sage idea and core mechanics is amazing yet poorly made.

all healer should feel different and unique like whm nature and white magic with buffing.

sch should be shield with a better pets and poison/debuff


astro should be a mix of buff debuff with healing like all strong healing should be field and damage.

sage should be focus on kardia doing the healing and only having the aoe and single target shield as pure heals all other should be DPS move and depending on with one you use kardia should heal for a different amount

[Valmaxian]

I mean, WHM *used* to have Fluid Aura, Aero 1-3, Stone spells (now Glare), and Holy. Plus, cross-class abilities (remember when we could take Thunder? And Cleric Stance??). Imagine adding these options to Assize and Afflatus Misery.

SCH had Bio 1-2, Miasma 1-2, Shadow Flare, Ruin/Broil, and cross-class DoTs with Aero and Thunder (plus Cleric stance!)

AST used to have LOTS of Card variety+Royal Road, Malefic, Combust, Gravity, and Stella. Time dilation/Celestial Opposition gave us flexibility to extend buffs, adding a fabulous dimension to the job.

Sooooo.....yeah. Could we get back the buttons that were taken?

[Lorika]

Some people seems to have reading problem

I maintain the sentiment that healing need to be fixed first.
A better DPS rotation is just a band aid on gaping wound that will make us just a third rate DPS that nobody will want.

Here better?
So why first and not both at the same time?
Simple :

1. Doing two opposite things at the same time will lead to catastrophe.... After all : A courir deux lièvres en même temps, on en attrape aucun.
2. Fixing healing involve a lot of nerf and heavy modification on job and encounter... So an heavy work. Adding and balancing a DPS rotation on the side it's just asking for quick and crappy work.
3. After the healing fixed, they will need to assess how busy healer have become.
4. If healer have become too busy healing, what the point of a DPS rotation that will only be used rarely?
5. And, button bloat is still a thing on healer righ now.... So why add more bloat?.... or they will use the same x skills on one button like PCT/VPR.... Which won't change the 1111111 spam in the end.

Anyway, first fixing healing and then we will see how things proceed.... Wanting more DPS option before that is asking for the healing to be never fixed and make us a third rate DPS that nobody will want.

[Edit]
Oh, BTW, i don't see the current CBU3 being capable of fixing healing, rework correctly healer or adding a decent DPS rotation.... So.... Doing the both at the same time even less.

[IDontPetLalas]

Some people seems to have reading problem


Here better?
So why first and not both at the same time?
Simple :

1. Doing two opposite things at the same time will lead to catastrophe.... After all : A courir deux lièvres en même temps, on en attrape aucun.
2. Fixing healing involve a lot of nerf and heavy modification on job and encounter... So an heavy work. Adding and balancing a DPS rotation on the side it's just asking for quick and crappy work.
3. After the healing fixed, they will need to assess how busy healer have become.
4. If healer have become too busy healing, what the point of a DPS rotation that will only be used rarely?
5. And, button bloat is still a thing on healer righ now.... So why add more bloat?.... or they will use the same x skills on one button like PCT/VPR.... Which won't change the 1111111 spam in the end.

Anyway, first fixing healing and then we will see how things proceed.... Wanting more DPS option before that is asking for the healing to be never fixed and make us a third rate DPS that nobody will want.

[Edit]
Oh, BTW, i don't see the current CBU3 being capable of fixing healing, rework correctly healer or adding a decent DPS rotation.... So.... Doing the both at the same time even less.

If it was "simple" it would have already have been done years ago- so no, it's not that simple.

Regarding your points: (1) who is asking for job designers to do two "opposite" things - they are not necessarily opposing, and calling it a "catastrophe" - as opposed to the current situation - the bar is fairly low. As for (2) again, you don't know or have explained why that adding or modifying DPS skills- not necessarily a rotation- would lead to "quick and crappy work". (3) Why would they do a half-assed job design change, and give it to the players for months- if not longer? Don't you think that after 10 years they should have a way to assess how "busy" a job can be, and can test this to some degree? I think so. (4) Who says that this would always be the case? In all types of content? I really doubt it. (5) That's a UI issue - there are so many ways to implement this, I can't believe it's coming up again. Not only that, you even propose one possible solution - then complain than healers might spam one button. So what's the real issue for you- button bloat or spam? I'm honestly confused.


To conclude, when we ask a dev team to look at a problem they look at a problem holistically. The dev team could come back and say that the problem is complex, and needs to be broken down, however I would say to them that i don't want to wait years to get a fun job. I don't want a "we fixed healing, we'll think about the rest of your job later" whenever patch.

[Lorika]

So tu sum up : i want everything now.

Please be realistic... If CBU3 was capable and cared about healer, we wouldn't be in the present situation.
So il will say it again : Fixing healing is the priority and must come first.... Except if you want to play GWXIV