Can anyone clearly explain "job homogenization" in this game?

[Supersnow845]

????? Look at what I said in that post you just replied to. Specifically this part: "Jobs are already extremely unique in this game, like I said before: the same timing is not the same activity. It's just good standardization. There's a big difference between the word standardization and the word homogenization. That's what this game really has going on with it too. That's why I was so confused about how people keep talking about homogenization, because there really isn't a problem with homogenization in this game. The standardization of burst windows though, yes, this is a real thing."

You can't just say one word and mean another. Language has meaning, words have meaning. Don't say homogenization when you mean standardization. There's a big difference. Things can follow the same standard(2 minute burst meta), while also being completely different in execution(not homogenized). This is what we have now.

I've never once changed my stance, and this thread has always been about clarifying the complaints people have with the game. It's just funny because your complaints are literally directed toward what makes this game good and balanced. Goes to show that people will be unhappy no matter what. Even about things that are objectively good for the game's design. At least it should be clear to the devs now, and they likely already understand that when making games, you have to just learn to ignore a lot of people who complain.

If you standardise something that was not standardised before you are bringing multiple things that were different and making them similar, that is literally the definition of homogenisation. Both represent an effort to “become more similar”, standardisation is usually just used exclusively for sets of rules and guidelines.

So if you are standardising a set of bursts that were not standardised you are in effect homogenising them. Playing around with synonyms to go “standardisation is when they do x homogenisation is when they do y” to make it sound like it’s not homogenisation is just poor sophistry

[HikariKurosawa]

If you standardise something that was not standardised before you are bringing multiple things that were different and making them similar, that is literally the definition of homogenisation. Both represent an effort to “become more similar”, standardisation is usually just used exclusively for sets of rules and guidelines.

So if you are standardising a set of bursts that were not standardised you are in effect homogenising them. Playing around with synonyms to go “standardisation is when they do x homogenisation is when they do y” to make it sound like it’s not homogenisation is just poor sophistry

Gonna have to agree to disagree then. At least I understand where you're coming from though, and so does anyone else reading this thread. Like I said though, and I'm only going to say this one last time: burst cooldown timing being the same has nothing to do with the form of activity during that window. It just means the windows for the jobs line up, which means jobs are all viable picks for all levels of content unless you're going for world firsts. Then you have to bring pictomancer, the most unique job in the entire game lol.

[Carighan]

It just means the windows for the jobs line up, which means jobs are all viable picks for all levels of content unless you're going for world firsts.

Yeah but that's why "homogenization" isn't a single thing. As explained to you before. There are lot sof types of homogenization, and painting them universally as bad or to-be-avoided is not a good approach, too. It's not a binary system. It's a scale, and every design in every MMO falls somewhere onto it.

Too little homogenization, and balance is entirely impossible, not even close-to-balanced. This might be acceptable of course (depending on game) but most gamers nowadays expect some level of balance. This is sometimes intentionally done however in single-player games, because usually there we want classes to feel as diverse as possible.
Too much homogenization, and your design space collapses, it doesn't feel like you have, say, 20 options how to play, more like 4-5. The most common variant of this is that only your role matters any more, not your actual class. Melees are mostly there for example, tanks and healers are. PRanged and Casters mostly avoid this fate in FFXIV, at least so far. Might again be warranted, depending on your game. In games such as Counter Strike you want near-full homogenization, to keep the playing field as even as possible. In most MMORPGs you don't want tooooo much, because then people get bored as swapping to other classes adds little meaningful variety to their gameplay.

[HikariKurosawa]

Yeah but that's why "homogenization" isn't a single thing. As explained to you before. There are lot sof types of homogenization, and painting them universally as bad or to-be-avoided is not a good approach, too. It's not a binary system. It's a scale, and every design in every MMO falls somewhere onto it.

Too little homogenization, and balance is entirely impossible, not even close-to-balanced. This might be acceptable of course (depending on game) but most gamers nowadays expect some level of balance. This is sometimes intentionally done however in single-player games, because usually there we want classes to feel as diverse as possible.
Too much homogenization, and your design space collapses, it doesn't feel like you have, say, 20 options how to play, more like 4-5. The most common variant of this is that only your role matters any more, not your actual class. Melees are mostly there for example, tanks and healers are. PRanged and Casters mostly avoid this fate in FFXIV, at least so far. Might again be warranted, depending on your game. In games such as Counter Strike you want near-full homogenization, to keep the playing field as even as possible. In most MMORPGs you don't want tooooo much, because then people get bored as swapping to other classes adds little meaningful variety to their gameplay.

Counter strike doesn't have homogenization at all... I think you're confusing the word balance with homogenization at this point. It's like saying overwatch is homogenized because there is no stat differences on the same hero, also like saying that this game is not homogenized because gear exists. Tell me you have no clue about fps without telling me you have no clue about fps.

Melee in this game is the most unique, all 4 tanks are incredibly unique so again that point is fake, and all healers are also completely unique, even within barrier and pure healer types. Ast is nothing like whm, sage is nothing like sch. Even the dps rotations feel different, and the AoE absolutely feels different. Same with Phys ranged and casters. It's just a wild take to suggest the job gameplay has homogenization.

The burst moments of every job are also all unique, so I don't see it there.

The one thing I will say has been standardized like I already did, is the burst timing. And yeah? That's pretty normal. What do you think that having cooldowns longer than 2 minutes or at odd intervals would actually make the game feel better? All it would do is push jobs out of the meta in favor of those that align with 2 minute window lol. On top of doing nothing to make the game feel better.