Just Delete Picto Please

[Valence]

Interlude

[Carighan]

That weird "the matrix is glitching"-feeling when WAR is the lowest-rated tank.

[Rueby]

Interlude

This made me laugh so hard, thank you.

[Godzillaxpowerrangers]

That was a very good video.

[OdysseusGR]

you are confusing wow forums with ff14 forums. being aggressive does not help anyone

[Lyth]

It's not much the ability to be a Rez Machine, but more of a lore problem.
People forget that Red Magic was created by the survivor BLM of Mach and survivor WHM of Amdapor to avoid another sixth calamity.
To do so they tried, and was able to combine both Black and White Magic together while only using personal aether.

So having Heal and raise is more of a Lore problem than anything.

It's not really a lore issue. Both Potion and Phoenix Down could very easily be implemented as role/character actions if need be. Raise tax only needs to exist if it's specific to certain jobs and not others. I expect that the devs don't want to get rid of non-healer raises entirely, simply for the reason that it allows players to recover in casual content. It's just a question of implementing it in a way that doesn't create multiple DPS tiers within the same role category.

[Carighan]

It's not really a lore issue. Both Potion and Phoenix Down could very easily be implemented as role/character actions if need be. Raise tax only needs to exist if it's specific to certain jobs and not others. I expect that the devs don't want to get rid of non-healer raises entirely, simply for the reason that it allows players to recover in casual content. It's just a question of implementing it in a way that doesn't create multiple DPS tiers within the same role category.

And what do Red Mages and Summoners get instead of rezz? Mind you I already got a way to deal competitive damage: Swap to another job. With how insanely trivial multiclassing is in FFXIV, I'm fine having one button that puts me into "no support, damage"-mode, and another that picks the "more support, less damage"-mode.

Jobs are what specs are in other MMOs. You can only swap them out of combat, and usually only one is damage-competitive, but sometimes you bring others for utility reasons.

Why would you want to effectively eliminate this distinction, at which point there's no reason to have multiple jobs of the same archetype in the first place?

[Lyth]

FFXIV jobs are not World of Warcraft specs. Telling casters 'to just play Pictomancer' just doesn't cut it.

Raise is an issue in this game because the devs want it to be readily available on demand in casual content. That's why it's so hard to balance, because there's no real equivalent to this. You either restrict its use (timers, charges) and remove the DPS penalty, or you make it a role action and remove the DPS penalty. Perhaps even both. There are other ways that jobs can differentiate themselves in terms of utility which don't necessarily need to result in different DPS tiers within the same role. PCT itself is a demonstration on how much utility can go completely untaxed.

Different jobs exist because not everyone on the same role enjoys the same gameplay or aesthetics. Forcing players to play a job that they don't want to just to stay competitive is a surefire way to drive people out of those roles, and ultimately the game.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

FFXIV jobs are not World of Warcraft specs. Telling casters 'to just play Pictomancer' just doesn't cut it.

Raise is an issue in this game because the devs want it to be readily available on demand in casual content. That's why it's so hard to balance, because there's no real equivalent to this. You either restrict its use (timers, charges) and remove the DPS penalty, or you make it a role action and remove the DPS penalty. Perhaps even both. There are other ways that jobs can differentiate themselves in terms of utility which don't necessarily need to result in different DPS tiers within the same role. PCT itself is a demonstration on how much utility can go completely untaxed.

Different jobs exist because not everyone on the same role enjoys the same gameplay or aesthetics. Forcing players to play a job that they don't want to just to stay competitive is a surefire way to drive people out of those roles, and ultimately the game.

I agree honestly. I have always been on the side of getting rid of caster rez or making it a role action. I think its dumb to hold smn and rdm back just bc they have a rez and I also think it's dumb they 90% of the time are the default casters that go into the caster role just bc they have rez. It's a similar reason why it's dumb for pct is be considered a must job because its DPS is so high. It creates a lot of problems. Also, I be really honest...the caster rez from my exp usually ends up being wasted or used a lot. Unless you are in a pre-made group with coms, pf healers will auto-rez right away and will either overwrite your rez or you overwrite theirs. The only time I have ever found value in caster rez is when either both healers die or there 3+ players are dead. Even with the 3+ ppl dead part a lot of fights nowadays have body checks and even if you are able to get everyone off the floor the chances are you not going to meet the body check in time and wipe anyway. I think this community overvalues the caster rez and it's time for the devs to rework how it works. It only causing balance issues in the caster role and it been it for several expacs now. If anything, limit the caster rez in savage and ultimates as they did in other content like Criterion Duns.

[Carighan]

FFXIV jobs are not World of Warcraft specs. Telling casters 'to just play Pictomancer' just doesn't cut it.

No it is actually nearly exactly that.

Just like in WoW, we expect balance between various jobs (=specs) of the same role (=class) here. We can swap between them out of combat, some trade damage or tanking or healing output for some other utility, but overall we expect a rather balanced outcome. Really the only big differences are a) You need to level specs one-by-one here and b) You get very few shared abilities between jobs of one role (compared to specs of one class).

Why shouldn't we compare things that mechanically work the same or highly-similar to other games? Use available data, other games worked these approaches before, we can look at what did and did not work for them.