The game needs to open up

[FlopsyPrince]

I am new to the game.

The forced aspect of the MSQ is one of the very annoying features.

[ReynTime]

I am new to the game.

The forced aspect of the MSQ is one of the very annoying features.

If they weren't selling items in the mogstation for this, any feedback of giving players the choice to progress from scratch without relying on the MSQ and therefore add features for the field zones that help make this happen wouldn't be completely pointless.

But no the mogstation is the alternative they will point towards if a player complains they need to do the MSQ.

For the record I'm not defending them. I wish this game gave you a choice that wasn't "buy this expensive premium item that unlocks MSQ content".

[RaideDuku]

How hard would it be to try out an expansion where zones aren't locked by MSQ,
-not saying yay or nay on this, but what purpose would it serve? I'm not being dismissive, I'm honestly curious.

-where quests don't have braindead markers telling you where to go
And 96% of people would hate it and look it up on Google, anyway. Put in a toggle that turns them off for the masochists that want to do that. I've done my stint of 90's-early 00's MMO quest design. I'm done with it.

-where dungeons are nothing like the stale formula we have
So what, like branching paths? "Proper" dungeons, maybe? Problem with that is that 96% of people will find the most efficient means of completing a dungeon, and always do it that way. Any deviation from the norm will not be tolerated.
Just like something like skill trees, the developers might intend there to be choice, but the community will dictate and enforce the choice for you.

-where underwater isn't just a pretty landscape and combat/breathing mechanics are tried out.
There has never been a MMO, and very few games (if any) that have done underwater combat well. I do not think that FFXIV would be the one to break the trend. And if they did try it, and it sucks, it'll just be another "Meeeeeh, why'd they waste resources on that" situation.

-Where exploration and open world events are tried through the entire introduced zones instead of designated exploration instances like Eureka and Bozja.
Rather keep them seperate, thanks. Last thing I want to do during MSQ is to have a bunch of mobs eating my ass just because I had the audacity to want to go from point A to point B. Again, did my time in old MMOs. I'm done with it.

-Where some side quests are just damn hard
Sidequests? So purely optional? Sure.

-Where some open world dungeons are introduced, and the mobs are just lethal
I can't think of any instance where open world dungeons are implemented where it isn't just a big free for all flustercluck. It's all fun and games until you and 20 other groups are all camping the same boss. Especially if that boss has an absurd respawn timer.

Sounds like you just want an old school circa 90's-early 00's MMO. Fortunately, there are many of those still in service that you can try. If you're looking for this game to become those games, though, don't hold your breath. There is a reason why most of these old MMO mechanics have been regulated to the dustbin of history.

[VeyaAkemi]

How hard would it be to try out an expansion where zones aren't locked by MSQ,So what, like branching paths? "Proper" dungeons, maybe? Problem with that is that 96% of people will find the most efficient means of completing a dungeon, and always do it that way. Any deviation from the norm will not be tolerated.
Just like something like skill trees, the developers might intend there to be choice, but the community will dictate and enforce the choice for you.

This cannot be understated, older dungeons did have optional stuff, but it became the norm to ignore those alt paths and just go down the exact same path every time, the current state of dungeon design is the dev response to that, a shrug of going "Well, I guess that's what people want...".

When was the last time you saw someone check the note at the start of Sastasha for the right button at the coral segment? almost always a long time if you don't do it yourself, or do the puzzle correctly at Qarn? well it's faster to not do the puzzle, so people will ignore it, I once had a Tank that was going out of their way do the puzzle, and one of the DPS demanded me to Rescue the Tank to get them moving, I didn't, partly because I literally couldn't, I was new to the game and that Healer was low level enough that I didn't have the skill, but still shows the attitude around it.

[TaleraRistain]

There is a some Old MMO still in service, yes... But most of them (if not all) are just in maintenance mode and are only populated with an handfull of die hard fans.(And the server are 25 years old technology, so it doesn't cost a lot to run them)
Some new player pop from time to time just to do tourism ("i want to see how old school MMO look like")... But that's all.

The past 10 years 98% of the attempt to make new Sandbox MMO (Aka "Old School") have failed miserably, and those that are still in service, barelly survive (except BDO). This is facts.

EverQuest is still getting expansions but the population isn't anywhere near where it was in its heyday. I was mostly making the point that there are games out there that do what the OP wants and it's just not modern MMO design anymore.

[radpeepo]

it sounds to me you want an old-style mmo in the modern gaming era, which wouldn't appeal to most of the current audience

-where quests don't have braindead markers telling you where to go
-where underwater isn't just a pretty landscape and combat/breathing mechanics are tried out.

i don't think most players would appreciate this. in regards to the minimap, at some point convenience will outweigh the sense of "exploring" and people will get impatient

the idea of combat underwater is interesting, but i personally do not want to see this game add survival game mechanics like breathing lol





you do add good points that i personally would wish to be explored, especially since the "open world" aspect of this game and dungeon design is kinda lacking

-where dungeons are nothing like the stale formula we have
-Where some open world dungeons are introduced, and the mobs are just lethal

part of what i enjoyed a lot while playing MMOs in general is the exploration aspect, so i think these are things that would be nice...

i like that some dungeons have dialogue you can read, and having more interactable aspects of dungeons would be cool. really like variant dungeons despite their rewards being trash. they definitely could do more in the dungeon department to make msq dungeons more interesting/engaging

i don't know about open world dungeons, but what about random roaming bosses/fates that have extra glam/weapons/minions that they could drop? maybe a secret title or something? now that'd be rad. they have these in ARR-HW and I feel like re-implementing them wouldn't be that intrusive or inconvenient to players


---------------------

personally, i enjoy old-style mmos, especially when i was younger and did not value my time as much as i do now, but since i do value my time, as many other players do, some old-style mmo quirks really need to stay in the past

[ovIm]

This cannot be understated, older dungeons did have optional stuff, but it became the norm to ignore those alt paths and just go down the exact same path every time, the current state of dungeon design is the dev response to that, a shrug of going "Well, I guess that's what people want...".

When was the last time you saw someone check the note at the start of Sastasha for the right button at the coral segment? almost always a long time if you don't do it yourself, or do the puzzle correctly at Qarn? well it's faster to not do the puzzle, so people will ignore it, I once had a Tank that was going out of their way do the puzzle, and one of the DPS demanded me to Rescue the Tank to get them moving, I didn't, partly because I literally couldn't, I was new to the game and that Healer was low level enough that I didn't have the skill, but still shows the attitude around it.

Part of that is also because of the reward structure. The puzzles in Qarn, for example, were interesting to some because their loot could be used to craft different gear. There is an optional treasure chest in Haukke Manor that drops an item one can use to craft housing items. Most people jumping into roulette were not after those specific items, so of course they were skipped. Does not mean those bits did not have a reason to exist, do you know what I mean?

Imagine a dungeon that offers an optional path with an extra boss. Takes 5 extra minutes, but the boss itself gives extra weekly tomes, and an item thats part of a glamour set. Suddenly, there is an incentive to run the extra route.
Other mechanics exist that did not alter the dungeon structure, but rewarded the player differently. Saint Mociannes Hard had this interesting bit where you could wash mobs to make them weaker. One party member just had to open a valve, and the tank had to pull the enemies through them. These are small thing that make dungeons more interesting than the current "wallpull wallpull boss" structure. Those ideas have kinda been incorporated into Variant Dungeons, and I really hope Variant Dungeons influence regular dungeons a bit more going forward.

[hydralus]

Love when people get bored of a game, and they decide that the best idea moving forward is to suggest the game become an entirely different game, instead of like, playing a different game. May as well ask them to turn it into a flight simulator.

[Kaurhz]

-How hard would it be to try out an expansion

-where zones aren't locked by MSQ,

I can understand this from a development perspective seeing as how crucial the story is to the game. Now, what I could concede on is...
-Where content is not locked behind story progression.

-where quests don't have braindead markers telling you where to go

Honestly, I don't mind this, what I do mind is that every zone is so small, is its own instance and flying. This makes the world much smaller than it should be.

-where dungeons are nothing like the stale formula we have

Agreed, though the only caveat here is that dungeons are a stale formula because it is essentially how people ended up playing the game.

-where underwater isn't just a pretty landscape and combat/breathing mechanics are tried out.

Would love this.

-Where exploration and open world events are tried through the entire introduced zones instead of designated exploration instances like Eureka and Bozja.

This is one of the biggest things I hate about Eureka/Bozja, it's a constant prompter for what the open world zones should be at a bare minimum. Eureka and Bozja should not be content. It should be embedded all throughout the game.

-Where some side quests are just damn hard

Would be nice if the solo instances had a little more engagement.

-Where some open world dungeons are introduced, and the mobs are just lethal

Agreed, but I think hunts should be reworked and more normalized on a much smaller respawn timer. I am probably looking at something akin to how the OG OG Diadem was, way back when it was ancient and combat oriented, and with the emergency mission. I know people feel strongly but I think OG Diadem was just ahead of its time.

[radpeepo]

Love when people get bored of a game, and they decide that the best idea moving forward is to suggest the game become an entirely different game, instead of like, playing a different game. May as well ask them to turn it into a flight simulator.

to be fair, many players do get bored with the game, and i think the devs/designers could add more to the game to make it more interesting, AND without drastically changing the game....

cmon, the whole "play a different game" argument is as dated as the mechanics OP is asking for
people wanna see change for good reason. people who ask for change are the ones who don't want to play a different game