The game needs to open up

[Kaliesto]

I'm joining in your chorus Topic Creator, I too had enough of this BS.

Why would a nearly 50% decrease in Steam activity not be reflected on other platforms? Dawntrail is the worst-received expansion in the game's history, with the head designer publicly apologizing for it and promising changes in content. I really don't see how a developer would like this situation to their game. But maybe we are living in different universes and playing different games.

How often have they promised us and how often has it been broken? I'm tired of their excuses, and how much they catered to a certain demographic of players. None of this would not have happened if they were not so hellbent on making this game not having any real fun factor to it except outside of story content which isn't much.

Cut & Paste, and please the casual crowd for "accessibility" which is such a BS reason to make everyone else suffer for it because it proves that they don't believe that players won't help eachother to actually learn and grow.

There is a good reason why PVP is so popular right now for example because there is some actual strategy involved, and also thanks to the new changes finally balancing things out better.

[Swordsman]

Just because they game has followed a format for a decade doesn't mean it has to remain this way. Everything in this game is too compartmentalized and on rails.

How hard would it be to try out an expansion where zones aren't locked by MSQ,
-where quests don't have braindead markers telling you where to go
-where dungeons are nothing like the stale formula we have
-where underwater isn't just a pretty landscape and combat/breathing mechanics are tried out.
-Where exploration and open world events are tried through the entire introduced zones instead of designated exploration instances like Eureka and Bozja.
-Where some side quests are just damn hard
-Where some open world dungeons are introduced, and the mobs are just lethal

Sure, not all of these systems and things will be hits with everyone, and people are going to complain about them but no one will be able to point the finger and say they've given up just like we all feel they have in DT.

It's obvious to me the current method to the game will just drive it to the ground sooner rather than later. It's time to break the shackles and explore another path for this MMO.

This game needs to work on producing:
1. Shock
2. Awe and wonder
3. Curiosity
4. A feeling of freedom

It would be great for the game for once to release content that doesn't feel like the same junk reskinned, for the 100th time.

I agree with a lot of this. The game has lost a lot of its appeal and continues to do so with each patch. IMO it still beats the competition which is why I still play, but the bar for the MMO market is currently really low.

[Lorika]

but the bar for the MMO market is currently really low.

Well, yeah... All the MMO in the Top 5 are all around 10 years old at least (with WoW being 20 years all) XD

[RaideDuku]

The biggest contributor to that is probably duty finder. I don't think people are actually that averse to interesting dungeons. The speedrun mentality came from dungeon and content design, not the other way around. FF14 is very static. The core of battle content is rerunning the same dungeons over and over and the high skill endgame is running the same raids over and over. Players haven't even really had a chance to experience much else.

I mean... when you boil in down, isn't that how all MMOs are? In most cases, MMO dungeons tend to be static. Sure, you can add flags and difficulty settings to mix things up, but at the end of the day it's the same dungeon with the same goal: get in, get the reward, get out as fast and efficiently as possible. Its just human nature to do things the quickest and most efficient way possible. If you can buy honey at a store, you don't go wandering around a forest, looking for beehives to smash your face in.

The only way to have a true explorative experience every time you go into a dungeon is to have a new layout for the dungeon each time. There has been mmos that have played around with procedurally generated dungeons. Anarchy Online, City of Heroes/Villains, even deep dungeons in FFXIV. All have been, in general, fairly lacking, mostly due to modular systems that MMOs use to do the generating.

[PyurBlue]

I mean... when you boil in down, isn't that how all MMOs are? In most cases, MMO dungeons tend to be static. Sure, you can add flags and difficulty settings to mix things up, but at the end of the day it's the same dungeon with the same goal: get in, get the reward, get out as fast and efficiently as possible. Its just human nature to do things the quickest and most efficient way possible. If you can buy honey at a store, you don't go wandering around a forest, looking for beehives to smash your face in.

Well that is one problem I have with gameplay built around rewards in general, though putting that aside, it's not always true that people aim to do things as efficiently as possible. Have you never tried to cook something yourself just to try it? Have you ever been out and taken a turn off the path you were intending to go down just to explore? When players are being gatekept by things like XP, drip fed gear, and timed lockouts I'm not surprised that they try to minimize the time it takes to reach the end. The experience isn't the reward, it's a time sink to prevent you from moving on even if you're starting to get bored.

This is usually the opposite of what a MMO game uses to entice new players. The pitch is typically trying to sell prospective players on the idea of going on a grand adventure with surprises and interesting events along the way. FF14 definitely does this in its advertising and while the MSQ has its fair share of interesting plot, it along with the rest of the game is a bit too rigid to deliver on the promise that the advertising tries to sell. You don't get a world to explore. You get a predetermined story to sit through. That story can be good, it can even be fantastic, but it will never be the same kind of adventure that is being used to attract players in the first place. At least that's how I see it.

The only way to have a true explorative experience every time you go into a dungeon is to have a new layout for the dungeon each time. There has been mmos that have played around with procedurally generated dungeons. Anarchy Online, City of Heroes/Villains, even deep dungeons in FFXIV. All have been, in general, fairly lacking, mostly due to modular systems that MMOs use to do the generating.

What's needed is uncertainty. As great as procedural layouts would be, they aren't the only design choice that fosters variety. Fixed dungeons like those we have now could be improved with enemies and items in different positions. You mentioned earlier that players would try to optimize spawn points, but that's only going to work if those spawn points are very limited and predictable. Player starting points would have to be limited for most existing dungeon layouts, but enemy placement would be nearly entirely free. Interactions with the environment is another idea, what if a path that was initially clear is blocked off after a boss fight because of fallen debris?

Dungeon variety is only part of the problem though because if everything is a reward treadmill the content eventually becomes tedious. I think what MMO's need is to lean more heavily into of the promise of a world to adventure in. Tell a story that captures players' attentions and gets them invested and then build content that gives those players some agency over the world. Have players grown attached to the losing side in a war and want to help them? Instead of locking the fate of the conflict to the narrative, let player actions have some impact. They can fight the aggressive side or craft items for the losing side and eventually if enough is done the aggressor can be persuaded to give up.

This is absolutely more complex than using copy and paste on similar instances with minor aesthetic changes over and over while artificially limiting progress behind many different progress or resource bars. I'm well aware of that. I still want the more fun option.

[Commander_Justitia]

Well, yeah... All the MMO in the Top 5 are all around 10 years old at least (with WoW being 20 years all) XD

maybe Chrono Odyssey in a year, looks more like a dark souls gameplay as mmorpg, but they need to show more gameplay

Blue Protocol doesnt even leave Asia, they end it.

So yeah, it is hard making good MMORPGs and keeping them relevant.

[Hyperia]

I would love to have an open world dungeon where we are in a normal zone, people can see us running it but can’t interact and we can’t see them. It would reuse zones, make them feel more alive and mix up the formula.

Imagine having the ShB rescue Ryne quest but instead of solo, it’s 4 player. Way more interesting than some cave underground for the 100th time.

[RaideDuku]

blip

Made a few points, so here we go.

1. A game has to have to have rewards in order to keep people interested. Perhaps if a MMO could be the size of an actual planet, you could simply have exploration as it's own rewards. However, MMOs are limited. Eventually, the available landmass will be explored, its secrets found, and unless there are rewards, people won't come back. If folks sailed halfway around the world and found a new landmass, sure they'd be excited. But if there's absolutely nothing of worth there, they ain't staying, and they ain't coming back.

2. As far as how you want dungeons. Variant dungeons. Well, with a few enhancements, but yeah, you want variant dungeons. Thing is, if you let people pick the paths they take, once they've done all the paths, they're going to just pick the most efficient one to get the rewards they want to get. If you take away that choice, make it random... well...really all you're doing is sticking people in a hallway and rearranging the furniture. Might keep people a little more interested for a bit longer...but they will eventually realize this sooner rather then later.

That being said, I'd still love it if all dungeons were made like variant dungeons. I just realize the variance would have a limit on how much it can...um...vary.

[Hyperia]

That being said, I'd still love it if all dungeons were made like variant dungeons. I just realize the variance would have a limit on how much it can...um...vary.

I would love it if our expert dungeons were variant style and the route you got was random every time. Not a daily random but a true roll a D7 for route upon every start.