The game needs to open up

[Alleluia]

How hard would it be to try out an expansion where zones aren't locked by MSQ,

Honestly, am not opposed to this bit. I would love to see some expac content dive back in to old zones. Especially the ARR zones, which feel the most lived in in the game. Bonus points if we get origin-specific content again. I just talked to all the NPCs in the little instanced Jeuno for the new 24 man and one of the NPCs asked where you are from. Having my starter city mentioned was unexpectedly nice.

-where quests don't have braindead markers telling you where to go

The option to just turn them off could suffice here, but it would require writing to pick up the slack and give more direction more consistently.

-where dungeons are nothing like the stale formula we have

Dungeons are fine and have only gotten more interesting, mechanics-wise. Though if I never see another spinning pointer hand mechanic, it'll be too soon.

-where underwater isn't just a pretty landscape and combat/breathing mechanics are tried out.

I have never seen a game where underwater combat went well. Its like mounted combat. Its epic if it's in a cinematic, fun if its a bit on rails in a set piece; but just freeform? No. Even GW2 underwater combat is meh and its probably one of the best mmo examples. Maybe, maybe, add creatures you need to avoid in some places with like an OGCD skill that lets you stun them for time to get away if you end up too near them or something.

-Where exploration and open world events are tried through the entire introduced zones instead of designated exploration instances like Eureka and Bozja.

How is this different than fates->special fates?

-Where some side quests are just damn hard

I'm for innovation in sidequesting. Though a solo sidequest leading to an overworld miniboss is less than ideal. We had that with relic steps in ARR requiring fates. Its not fun. However, if by "hard" you mean "not a readily obvious solution" or "requires a lot of steps", I'm one of those people who won't google it and will find it fun.

-Where some open world dungeons are introduced, and the mobs are just lethal

Aren't these exploration zones?

[All_Nonsense]

snip

Ya know, we did still have some "not hallway" dungeons in the game as recently as a year ago. They were in ARR, and players complained so much that they couldn't rush through them in their roulettes that the devs took them out of the game and reworked the last vestiges of that ancient MMO design philosophy. The world (read: The majority, the broader playerbase, the money) moved on from that and an incomprehensibly large number of silent players who don't talk on forums or even voice their opinions in general prefer what we have now. So that is what we will have from this point forward most likely. If you want Eureka/Bozja/Whatever's next, play it but don't be surprised when it's dead in 7.55.

I wish the overworld was like Bozja, I love the lost action system it's so much fun. And the fates are still lethal if you're not careful. It's what I prefer, but I'm not in the majority so I have to go to Bozja if I wanna play like that.

[Gunz_Zbestest]

You hit a point that I hadn't thought of. People had mentioned that the games armor is stuck behind weekly caps and that's always been the case since 2.0 (I think it used to have a 300 max cap). But the format is all being run like that now. To get anywhere in the new maps, you have to progress the main story. They feel like chunks of separate land that you have to Conquer and move on from rather than having it given all to you from the start. You can make a character in Uldah or Gridania and run all the way to Mor Dhona if you want to. The ability to get lost on side quests and immerse yourself into the world because it was more connected prior to earning it through beating the main story. Sorry my brain runs faster than I can write my thoughts sometimes but I hope that makes sense.

[FlopsyPrince]

I am new to the game.

The forced aspect of the MSQ is one of the very annoying features.

[ReynTime]

I am new to the game.

The forced aspect of the MSQ is one of the very annoying features.

If they weren't selling items in the mogstation for this, any feedback of giving players the choice to progress from scratch without relying on the MSQ and therefore add features for the field zones that help make this happen wouldn't be completely pointless.

But no the mogstation is the alternative they will point towards if a player complains they need to do the MSQ.

For the record I'm not defending them. I wish this game gave you a choice that wasn't "buy this expensive premium item that unlocks MSQ content".

[RaideDuku]

How hard would it be to try out an expansion where zones aren't locked by MSQ,
-not saying yay or nay on this, but what purpose would it serve? I'm not being dismissive, I'm honestly curious.

-where quests don't have braindead markers telling you where to go
And 96% of people would hate it and look it up on Google, anyway. Put in a toggle that turns them off for the masochists that want to do that. I've done my stint of 90's-early 00's MMO quest design. I'm done with it.

-where dungeons are nothing like the stale formula we have
So what, like branching paths? "Proper" dungeons, maybe? Problem with that is that 96% of people will find the most efficient means of completing a dungeon, and always do it that way. Any deviation from the norm will not be tolerated.
Just like something like skill trees, the developers might intend there to be choice, but the community will dictate and enforce the choice for you.

-where underwater isn't just a pretty landscape and combat/breathing mechanics are tried out.
There has never been a MMO, and very few games (if any) that have done underwater combat well. I do not think that FFXIV would be the one to break the trend. And if they did try it, and it sucks, it'll just be another "Meeeeeh, why'd they waste resources on that" situation.

-Where exploration and open world events are tried through the entire introduced zones instead of designated exploration instances like Eureka and Bozja.
Rather keep them seperate, thanks. Last thing I want to do during MSQ is to have a bunch of mobs eating my ass just because I had the audacity to want to go from point A to point B. Again, did my time in old MMOs. I'm done with it.

-Where some side quests are just damn hard
Sidequests? So purely optional? Sure.

-Where some open world dungeons are introduced, and the mobs are just lethal
I can't think of any instance where open world dungeons are implemented where it isn't just a big free for all flustercluck. It's all fun and games until you and 20 other groups are all camping the same boss. Especially if that boss has an absurd respawn timer.

Sounds like you just want an old school circa 90's-early 00's MMO. Fortunately, there are many of those still in service that you can try. If you're looking for this game to become those games, though, don't hold your breath. There is a reason why most of these old MMO mechanics have been regulated to the dustbin of history.

[VeyaAkemi]

How hard would it be to try out an expansion where zones aren't locked by MSQ,So what, like branching paths? "Proper" dungeons, maybe? Problem with that is that 96% of people will find the most efficient means of completing a dungeon, and always do it that way. Any deviation from the norm will not be tolerated.
Just like something like skill trees, the developers might intend there to be choice, but the community will dictate and enforce the choice for you.

This cannot be understated, older dungeons did have optional stuff, but it became the norm to ignore those alt paths and just go down the exact same path every time, the current state of dungeon design is the dev response to that, a shrug of going "Well, I guess that's what people want...".

When was the last time you saw someone check the note at the start of Sastasha for the right button at the coral segment? almost always a long time if you don't do it yourself, or do the puzzle correctly at Qarn? well it's faster to not do the puzzle, so people will ignore it, I once had a Tank that was going out of their way do the puzzle, and one of the DPS demanded me to Rescue the Tank to get them moving, I didn't, partly because I literally couldn't, I was new to the game and that Healer was low level enough that I didn't have the skill, but still shows the attitude around it.

[ovIm]

This cannot be understated, older dungeons did have optional stuff, but it became the norm to ignore those alt paths and just go down the exact same path every time, the current state of dungeon design is the dev response to that, a shrug of going "Well, I guess that's what people want...".

When was the last time you saw someone check the note at the start of Sastasha for the right button at the coral segment? almost always a long time if you don't do it yourself, or do the puzzle correctly at Qarn? well it's faster to not do the puzzle, so people will ignore it, I once had a Tank that was going out of their way do the puzzle, and one of the DPS demanded me to Rescue the Tank to get them moving, I didn't, partly because I literally couldn't, I was new to the game and that Healer was low level enough that I didn't have the skill, but still shows the attitude around it.

Part of that is also because of the reward structure. The puzzles in Qarn, for example, were interesting to some because their loot could be used to craft different gear. There is an optional treasure chest in Haukke Manor that drops an item one can use to craft housing items. Most people jumping into roulette were not after those specific items, so of course they were skipped. Does not mean those bits did not have a reason to exist, do you know what I mean?

Imagine a dungeon that offers an optional path with an extra boss. Takes 5 extra minutes, but the boss itself gives extra weekly tomes, and an item thats part of a glamour set. Suddenly, there is an incentive to run the extra route.
Other mechanics exist that did not alter the dungeon structure, but rewarded the player differently. Saint Mociannes Hard had this interesting bit where you could wash mobs to make them weaker. One party member just had to open a valve, and the tank had to pull the enemies through them. These are small thing that make dungeons more interesting than the current "wallpull wallpull boss" structure. Those ideas have kinda been incorporated into Variant Dungeons, and I really hope Variant Dungeons influence regular dungeons a bit more going forward.

[radpeepo]

it sounds to me you want an old-style mmo in the modern gaming era, which wouldn't appeal to most of the current audience

-where quests don't have braindead markers telling you where to go
-where underwater isn't just a pretty landscape and combat/breathing mechanics are tried out.

i don't think most players would appreciate this. in regards to the minimap, at some point convenience will outweigh the sense of "exploring" and people will get impatient

the idea of combat underwater is interesting, but i personally do not want to see this game add survival game mechanics like breathing lol





you do add good points that i personally would wish to be explored, especially since the "open world" aspect of this game and dungeon design is kinda lacking

-where dungeons are nothing like the stale formula we have
-Where some open world dungeons are introduced, and the mobs are just lethal

part of what i enjoyed a lot while playing MMOs in general is the exploration aspect, so i think these are things that would be nice...

i like that some dungeons have dialogue you can read, and having more interactable aspects of dungeons would be cool. really like variant dungeons despite their rewards being trash. they definitely could do more in the dungeon department to make msq dungeons more interesting/engaging

i don't know about open world dungeons, but what about random roaming bosses/fates that have extra glam/weapons/minions that they could drop? maybe a secret title or something? now that'd be rad. they have these in ARR-HW and I feel like re-implementing them wouldn't be that intrusive or inconvenient to players


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personally, i enjoy old-style mmos, especially when i was younger and did not value my time as much as i do now, but since i do value my time, as many other players do, some old-style mmo quirks really need to stay in the past

[hydralus]

Love when people get bored of a game, and they decide that the best idea moving forward is to suggest the game become an entirely different game, instead of like, playing a different game. May as well ask them to turn it into a flight simulator.