The game needs to open up

[Ath192]

I'm not in favor of tedium.

Good to know, because tedium is all we got. Amazing how in their quest to strip everything players found annoying in the game they ended up with the most tedious of all.

Here is the dictionary definition of it:
tedious
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
adjective

too long, slow, or dull; tiresome or monotonous.

Is this not XIV in a nutshell at this point? I fail to find a word more fitting TBH.

It is monotonous, the formula is tiresome, the release cycles take too long, the job design is dull, and new ideas are slow.

I think we’ve hit every single descriptor.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Good to know, because tedium is all we got. Amazing how in their quest to strip everything players found annoying in the game they ended up with the most tedious of all.

Here is the dictionary definition of it:
tedious
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
adjective

too long, slow, or dull; tiresome or monotonous.

Is this not XIV in a nutshell at this point? I fail to find a word more fitting TBH.

XIV has it's issues, yes. But making me google every quest where in the zone they hid an update, or have to waste time while enjoying underwater by finding air isn't going to fix them and would just reduce my enjoyment of the game.

Your other suggestions seem promising though.

[Ath192]

XIV has it's issues, yes. But making me google every quest where in the zone they hid an update, or have to waste time while enjoying underwater by finding air isn't going to fix them and would just reduce my enjoyment of the game.

Your other suggestions seem promising though.

Exactly, not everything is going to be a hit with everyone. But regardless, they should hit a little of everything so people actually have things to love and hate.

Instead of what we have. Which, largely amounts to scarcity and nothingness.

We’re in a sensory deprivation vat. They took away anything that made players feel any particular way about the game so now we feel nothing mostly.

I think by experimenting they will introduce hate and joy again. Which is better than numbness.

[Alleluia]

How hard would it be to try out an expansion where zones aren't locked by MSQ,

Honestly, am not opposed to this bit. I would love to see some expac content dive back in to old zones. Especially the ARR zones, which feel the most lived in in the game. Bonus points if we get origin-specific content again. I just talked to all the NPCs in the little instanced Jeuno for the new 24 man and one of the NPCs asked where you are from. Having my starter city mentioned was unexpectedly nice.

-where quests don't have braindead markers telling you where to go

The option to just turn them off could suffice here, but it would require writing to pick up the slack and give more direction more consistently.

-where dungeons are nothing like the stale formula we have

Dungeons are fine and have only gotten more interesting, mechanics-wise. Though if I never see another spinning pointer hand mechanic, it'll be too soon.

-where underwater isn't just a pretty landscape and combat/breathing mechanics are tried out.

I have never seen a game where underwater combat went well. Its like mounted combat. Its epic if it's in a cinematic, fun if its a bit on rails in a set piece; but just freeform? No. Even GW2 underwater combat is meh and its probably one of the best mmo examples. Maybe, maybe, add creatures you need to avoid in some places with like an OGCD skill that lets you stun them for time to get away if you end up too near them or something.

-Where exploration and open world events are tried through the entire introduced zones instead of designated exploration instances like Eureka and Bozja.

How is this different than fates->special fates?

-Where some side quests are just damn hard

I'm for innovation in sidequesting. Though a solo sidequest leading to an overworld miniboss is less than ideal. We had that with relic steps in ARR requiring fates. Its not fun. However, if by "hard" you mean "not a readily obvious solution" or "requires a lot of steps", I'm one of those people who won't google it and will find it fun.

-Where some open world dungeons are introduced, and the mobs are just lethal

Aren't these exploration zones?

[ZephyrMenodora]

Exactly, not everything is going to be a hit with everyone. But regardless, they should hit a little of everything so people actually have things to love and hate.

Instead of what we have. Which, largely amounts to scarcity and nothingness.

We’re in a sensory deprivation vat. They took away anything that made players feel any particular way about the game so now we feel nothing mostly.

I think by experimenting they will introduce hate and joy again. Which is better than numbness.

I did want to show my appreciation of your brainstorming, even if there were two things I didn't like. I think there are good ideas to be had in your post that could make the game more interesting.

[All_Nonsense]

snip

Ya know, we did still have some "not hallway" dungeons in the game as recently as a year ago. They were in ARR, and players complained so much that they couldn't rush through them in their roulettes that the devs took them out of the game and reworked the last vestiges of that ancient MMO design philosophy. The world (read: The majority, the broader playerbase, the money) moved on from that and an incomprehensibly large number of silent players who don't talk on forums or even voice their opinions in general prefer what we have now. So that is what we will have from this point forward most likely. If you want Eureka/Bozja/Whatever's next, play it but don't be surprised when it's dead in 7.55.

I wish the overworld was like Bozja, I love the lost action system it's so much fun. And the fates are still lethal if you're not careful. It's what I prefer, but I'm not in the majority so I have to go to Bozja if I wanna play like that.

[Lorika]

You’re talking like the game isn’t dead already lol.

I think that a lot of MMO would love dying like supposed FFXIV Doing XD

[TaleraRistain]

No, you have to ask yourself the following : Why Old School Sandbox MMO type have died?

I'm an old MMO player, i started on EverQuest in 1999.... And seriously, people who never experienced those type of content, should never ask for it.
The reason? Simple : The Players....

Sandbox MMO tend to generate a ton of griefer (Stealth Boss Claim, Mob Train to whipe a party and take their XP spot, PK that would make look like serial killer as casual etc... etc...)

Seriously, what you asking is either a new FF MMO or to kill FFXIV.... because the majority of modern MMO players only know Theme Park MMO and, most of them, wouldn't be able to adapt to the way more harsher environment that Sandbox MMO deliver..

I'm a 1999 EverQuest player too and reading the OP I was just sitting and thinking "EverQuest is still in service..."

So much of that is old school MMO design that modern MMOs have just moved past now.

[Gunz_Zbestest]

You hit a point that I hadn't thought of. People had mentioned that the games armor is stuck behind weekly caps and that's always been the case since 2.0 (I think it used to have a 300 max cap). But the format is all being run like that now. To get anywhere in the new maps, you have to progress the main story. They feel like chunks of separate land that you have to Conquer and move on from rather than having it given all to you from the start. You can make a character in Uldah or Gridania and run all the way to Mor Dhona if you want to. The ability to get lost on side quests and immerse yourself into the world because it was more connected prior to earning it through beating the main story. Sorry my brain runs faster than I can write my thoughts sometimes but I hope that makes sense.

[Lorika]

I'm a 1999 EverQuest player too and reading the OP I was just sitting and thinking "EverQuest is still in service..."

So much of that is old school MMO design that modern MMOs have just moved past now.

There is a some Old MMO still in service, yes... But most of them (if not all) are just in maintenance mode and are only populated with an handfull of die hard fans.(And the server are 25 years old technology, so it doesn't cost a lot to run them)
Some new player pop from time to time just to do tourism ("i want to see how old school MMO look like")... But that's all.

The past 10 years 98% of the attempt to make new Sandbox MMO (Aka "Old School") have failed miserably, and those that are still in service, barelly survive (except BDO). This is facts.