How should they address the disparity within the role?

[Carighan]

The SCH SGE discrepancy is basically because SCH can warp entire mitigation plans around it. It has one extra mitigation than SGE on a purely raw mitigation front. It’s level 80 oGCD shield ability is infinitely better than SGE’s in 99% of instances and lasts near 4* as long and the CD reduction on recitation means it can vomit out shields that are just unmatched. Not even spreadlo itself (which is still limited by deployments 90 second CD) but even altering tank mitigation plans by critlo’s effective HP addition. Then of course spreadlo itself which makes SCH like GCD buffs (of which it has FOUR even if Seraphism cant affect spreadlo) and with said buffs can replace 5+ mitigations alone. Its utility is completely unmatched by any other ability in the game. Deployment is easily the strongest ability in the game and it isn’t even remotely close

I'll be honest, I flat out don't get why Deployment exists. The job has group shield. And... slightly indirect but naturally far more powerful group shield? Like, why?

And I'm fine with it being unique with Deployment, but why also have Succor then? Would be kinda cool if you had to work around a naturally weaker but less CD-y Deployment tactics because that kinda mirrors Sage beautifully (Scholar does GCD Adlo -> oGCD Deployment, result is a very strong shield on 1 target + a 75%-80% Sage power on everyone else), Sage as the output healer has oGCD Eukrasia -> GCD shield, more total overall shield, no big shield on one person. It'd be an elegant setup, and put some special emphasis on job elements.

So, think about what you just said, and then think about how you would feel about doing anything when levelling or solo content as an AST. Would it sound like an improvement, or even more painful.

Because after having several (less than successful) reworks, this is one question that people often don't ask themselves- and before you may step in and say' well, you can always do those things on another job"- my answer to that is - yes, I can and sometimes do- but it shouldn't be necessary because it's miserable otherwise.

Eh, that's not something I'd ever be worried about. It's extremely unlikely the devs want to move towards more randomness so such a move would already be hugely unlikely, but even if it'd be some hyper-marginal randomness and have ~zero effect, anyways. Like the procs on Red Mage, that at higher levels really don't do a lot to the overall playstyle at all any more.

[Rithy255]

To have "niches" you need gameplay variability. All of the encounters are mostly "move here then here", "hit boss", "restore HP/mitigate"- There are no other meaningful mechanics beyond do the dance and mitigate then fill bars up. No status effects, no CC, no unique buffs to apply or debuffs to handle. Utility and its niches have been steadily been removed- You can't have uniquely designed jobs because the game has been designing them away in order for every job to be able to tackle all the content.

Look how well that's been going you can never design a game to be 100% balanced, getting rid of what made every job fun and different has been pointless because now your just playing different versions of the same job, but people still only bring the "good jobs" despite how much we have had to cater to removing job Identity for the sake of people at the highest end wanting to play any job. People now just mostly define what job is "meta" by dps numbers.

Ultimately I'm not arguing that making Jobs more fun and different would make the game more Balanced, but this approach we've had for three expansions now has clearly not properly worked if we're still discussing why some jobs are too bad or too good.

No amount of making every job play the same will stop people from optimising the game and wanting "meta" jobs over "non meta jobs". I personally would rather go back to having more fun and creative Jobs, what's the point of having a more boring game because we're trying to cater to a impossible task.

[NegativeS]

You're never going to entirely solve job pick rates unless you design content specifically so different jobs are better in different pieces of content. If all content is the same, then it doesn't matter what you do with the jobs--there will always be one with bigger numbers or better utility, so that is the one people will pick.

Unfortunately, FFXIV is pretty deep in the 'all content is the same' hole. Encounter design is completely standardized, and there are no special mechanics to speak of that different healers could interact with.

SE seems pretty comfy and unwilling to change in this regard, so I suppose unless they pull a post-Legion WoW and just start adding interactables into instances that only certain [classes/jobs] can interact with, this will probably never change.

Really sucks.

[Aravell]

They have made WHM and SGE slightly more appealing before, with a short phase dps check that's outside of 2 minutes like p4 TOP.

You can choose to run SGE/WHM and move Phlegma/Misery into the phase if you're struggling with the check. Because outside of 2 minutes, SCH and AST dps is nothing special.

If they make more short phase dps checks where you can't rely on 2 minute alignment, that makes SGE more appealing than SCH in groups with weaker damage.

[Supersnow845]

They have made WHM and SGE slightly more appealing before, with a short phase dps check that's outside of 2 minutes like p4 TOP.

You can choose to run SGE/WHM and move Phlegma/Misery into the phase if you're struggling with the check. Because outside of 2 minutes, SCH and AST dps is nothing special.

If they make more short phase dps checks where you can't rely on 2 minute alignment, that makes SGE more appealing than SCH in groups with weaker damage.

To be fair even in that situation SCH still was played 3 to 1 more times than SGE.

AST and WHM can be fixed with damage niches (because regen healing is inherently useless), but the entire game is designed around the output of the shield healer and SCH is just such a better shield healer than SGE

[IDontPetLalas]

I mean that problem is because of the 2 minute meta and the no nerfs balancing. It's shifting more and more of AST's damage output to its buffs and away from their personal dps.

Also they had to add multipliers to it, BRD, and DNC for them to be able to clear Criterion dungeons, so if it really starts to become a problem that's an option, though a terrible bandaid fix imo.

I see your point now, and I would agree. Thanks.

[Aravell]

To be fair even in that situation SCH still was played 3 to 1 more times than SGE.

AST and WHM can be fixed with damage niches (because regen healing is inherently useless), but the entire game is designed around the output of the shield healer and SCH is just such a better shield healer than SGE

I think they could give SGE a niche if they went all in on the damage healer aspect.

If, for example, SGE has less mitigative tools, still enough to clear, but they have instead vastly superior damage over SCH.

So in this case, with a SGE, you'd just barely survive mechanics if mitigation is perfect but you have a larger leeway on the dps check. Meanwhile, SCH doesn't provide the large leeway but you have a much safer run overall.

That way, SGE gets a niche filling in for lower total dps teams or speedkilling, while SCH remains the more generalist barrier healer. It wouldn't make SGE a vastly popular pick, but it would give them a niche to shine in.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Speaking of Deployment Tactic reminds of those days when Fairies were targetable with heals. Cast a Succor > 1st raidwide happens > Deploy the well placed fairy > gets a 2nd layer of party shield for 2nd raidwide. Deploying Eye for an Eye was also a thing, too.

Today? I only get to do that by prepull adlo myself & the tank for a w2w so I get to deploy the barrier from myself once the tank’s chipped away.

To this date, I’ve only seen exactly 2 other pug SCH who does this and it was ShB the last time I’ve seen them. They’re rare animals.