Regen healers are breaking the game

[Valence]

I'd definitely like to see AST nerfed because it's borderline godlike (does better on everything than a WhM, including damage, I've seen AST damage boards going over everybody but the big hitters like GNB/SMN/MCH), but I still do feel that regen healers pose a real problem to the game. Whether we consider that the game is actually meta balanced around healers being here to do what they allow, or that the game is balanced around no regen healers being here, the real problem is that a team without one is worse off than a team with one, whether it's an AST or not.

They're frankly cancer, and if people drop too fast in crystal rank and LPs, then perhaps it's a problem of design rather than requiring healers to save people from dying before they even press purify.

Also I'm sorry but a single CD for Cure II/III is nothing. We're not in pve where missing a cast is a huge deal either, especially when your replacement cast is saving your team from getting kill staggered.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Also I'm sorry but a single CD for Cure II/III is nothing. We're not in pve where missing a cast is a huge deal either, especially when your replacement cast is saving your team from getting kill staggered.

The reason I mentioned "triggers GCD" isn't because it costs you important damage like in PVE, but rather that you can absolutely miss a key opportunity to heal when you used a damaging GCD prior (Afflatus Misery & Glare IV for example).

So if at any point you commit to a damage GCD, that is 3.84 (2.4s + 1.44s cast time) before a Cure II comes out, somewhere around 2.6s for a Cure III. So either way you are either getting halted in doing actions so you can heal with Cure II in time given the cast time, or you are taking calculated risks each time you press non-heal GCDs that your next GCD heal may not be in time.

For 12000, Cure II is fine given that cast time. Cure III can't really be spammed, but I think they should reconsider for how long you can hold Cure III.

Aspected Benefic though... yeah no, this one breaks the charts with Doublecast and the total heal value on each part.

[Valence]

I have yet to see even good PLD going above average on damage charts. They're NOT doing the damage output they had prior to 7.1 (fortunately). Unlike GNB for example that consistently at high level reaches similar, ludicrous amounts to SMN or MCH.

The reason I mentioned "triggers GCD" isn't because it costs you important damage like in PVE, but rather that you can absolutely miss a key opportunity to heal when you used a damaging GCD prior (Afflatus Misery & Glare IV for example).

That's fair.

[Valence]

Alternative I'm perfectly happy with, just nerf the crap out of their damage output if you want them to heal like that. PLD is doing subpar damage because of all the insane defensive tools it has as a tradeoff, and it keeps the job in check. SCH is doing abyssmally low damage in exchange for how unique and weird the job behaves and influences games. Can you imagine if those jobs were able to casually reach 800k ++ damage at the end of games like AST can?

We'd get very low kill long winded games like we can get at times, but that's also not a huge issue, they do work as well.

[Bureda]

Alternative I'm perfectly happy with, just nerf the crap out of their damage output if you want them to heal like that. PLD is doing subpar damage because of all the insane defensive tools it has as a tradeoff, and it keeps the job in check. SCH is doing abyssmally low damage in exchange for how unique and weird the job behaves and influences games. Can you imagine if those jobs were able to casually reach 800k ++ damage at the end of games like AST can?

We'd get very low kill long winded games like we can get at times, but that's also not a huge issue, they do work as well.

Don't be ignorant. Paladin does high levels of damage whilst being relatively safe. They can push you out of an objective or fight solo and when they LB is up, that damage becomes lethal. As Square Enix said. They have an exceptionally high win rate and it's not because they used cover.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Don't be ignorant. Paladin does high levels of damage whilst being relatively safe. They can push you out of an objective or fight solo and when they LB is up, that damage becomes lethal. As Square Enix said. They have an exceptionally high win rate and it's not because they used cover.

I second this, Paladin has quite impactful, consistent damage now and the more opportunities you give it not having to spend time defending, the more it gets to do a lot of damage.

I unironically think it's beneficial trying to force them to Cover early so you have an opportunity to burst another target with less damage coming from the Paladin.

[IDontPetLalas]

Alternative I'm perfectly happy with, just nerf the crap out of their damage output if you want them to heal like that. PLD is doing subpar damage because of all the insane defensive tools it has as a tradeoff, and it keeps the job in check. SCH is doing abyssmally low damage in exchange for how unique and weird the job behaves and influences games. Can you imagine if those jobs were able to casually reach 800k ++ damage at the end of games like AST can?

We'd get very low kill long winded games like we can get at times, but that's also not a huge issue, they do work as well.

Now things are getting a bit nuts, to be frank, when you refer to healers as 'cancer", are repeating calls to nerf healing , then start calling to nerf damage output (due to their healing), and start comparing them to PLD.

Not only would I say that PLDs aren't in a bad place, but I wouldn't compare them directly to healers- although I could see where you might see both healers and tanks ands supports- they fulfill their functions differently.

I don't have any issue with people calling for adjustments- I just want them done conservatively - and exaggerated job descriptions don't typically lead developers to do that.

[Valence]

No things are getting a bit nuts, to be franks, when you refer to healers as 'cancer", are repeating calls to nerf healing , then start calling to nerf damage output (due to their healing), and start comparing them to PLD.

Not only would I say that PLDs aren't in a bad place, but I wouldn't compare them directly to healers- although I could see where you might see both healers and tanks ands supports- they fulfill their functions differently.

I don't have any issue with people calling for adjustments- I just want them done conservatively - and exaggerated job descriptions don't typically lead developers to do that.

Paladins are stellar, especially in the correct hands.

[Mekhana]

AST's doublecast shouldn't work for the same spell. Like if you heal you can't use the second double cast for heal also. Sorta like mudras...sorta. They nerfed the Heavy debuff but didn't realize the problem wasn't the duration but the fact you could cast it twice.

[IDontPetLalas]

AST's doublecast shouldn't work for the same spell. Like if you heal you can't use the second double cast for heal also. Sorta like mudras...sorta. They nerfed the Heavy debuff but didn't realize the problem wasn't the duration but the fact you could cast it twice.

lol, like now people are really getting ridiculous.