Do you think that Picto needs a nerf?

[GartredZW]

Maybe just have Muses require a target to paint.

It's a rough solution that doesn't make a lot of sense, but it would at least eliminate how well it uses downtime.
Of course, this wouldn't help it a lot in savage since you're targeting the boss most of the time, so nerfs are still necessary, but until they can think of something that doesn't break Picto at it's core, that might be the best solution.

[mallleable]

Another thing they can do to put some limiters on muses is like cut their potency in halfish, but make them auto direct hit crit.

[Supersnow845]

Maybe just have Muses require a target to paint.

It's a rough solution that doesn't make a lot of sense, but it would at least eliminate how well it uses downtime.
Of course, this wouldn't help it a lot in savage since you're targeting the boss most of the time, so nerfs are still necessary, but until they can think of something that doesn't break Picto at it's core, that might be the best solution.

Requiring a target to paint would break PCT pretty badly in almost everything besides full uptime savage

However this thread is about ultimate so let’s use an ultimate example. Right now PCT gains 12 seconds of uptime during downtime, now let’s make its muses require a target, it now has to convert 12 seconds of a previous phases uptime into downtime to properly align

Can you imagine the balance nightmare of trying to align buffs and one of your highest DPS dealers is actively doing zero damage during the limited uptime of a previous phase so it can burst properly in a phase that cares about burst

It would just be unworkable balance in the opposite direction

Another thing they can do to put some limiters on muses is like cut their potency in halfish, but make them auto direct hit crit.

Force crit capping is something I suggested as well. If star prism, the starry induced rainbow drip, and any hammer and creature parts cast under the effects of starry muse were halved potency but auto direct critted then PCT’s potential to burst as hard as it does would be massively neutered

[Carighan]

Maybe just have Muses require a target to paint.

It's a rough solution that doesn't make a lot of sense, but it would at least eliminate how well it uses downtime.
Of course, this wouldn't help it a lot in savage since you're targeting the boss most of the time, so nerfs are still necessary, but until they can think of something that doesn't break Picto at it's core, that might be the best solution.

But there's nothing inherently wrong with "Picto, the caster that loves downtimes". That's a unique identity, that's good. It should just not get this on top of getting all the other goodies like okay mobility (granted, they're the least mobile caster right now which really goes to show how broken and weird BLM is now that they're virtually-all-instant-casts), solid overall damage, strong burst multiplier, raid buff, raid shield, mobility tools, etc.

So just:

* Nerf their damage output, in particular of the burst skills like muses, and the instant casts.
* Keep the mechanics.

Tadaaah, a quite unique approach to caster that is slightly weaker to make up for their extreme flexibility.

[Owyn_Addens]

I really need someone to actually provide a valid method you could balance PCT in ultimates that doesn’t

A) make it totally useless in full uptime savage
B) completely guts how the class functions

Saying “ultimate easy nerf PCT btw” doesn’t fix anything because balancing it in ultimates isn’t an easy task

Frankly, it's probably impossible to make PCT not be the strongest job in Ultimates just because it checks every possible box for benefitting from how they tend to be designed.

1. It's damage profile is burst-oriented, with the bulk of its damage being in cooldowns that will keep ticking, while the filler GCDs that it loses are comparatively weak
2. It has GCDs that can be spent during downtime to create a little bit of extra uptime for itself
3. It has a lot of incidental cleave on its most powerful abilities, giving extra benefit against 2 targets
4. Swift -> Rainbow Drip is a strong option for right before the boss goes untargetable because its long GCD is completely negated

The problem is that Pictomancer isn't some middle-of-the-pack job that then becomes strong, suddenly matching or slightly exceeding the heaviest hitters, that would make DPS checks slightly more lenient if you brought them along.
Instead, they go from being the strongest job to the even-more-stronger-est job, completely eclipsing everyone else and making the job balance go from bad to embarassing.

How would I nerf it? I would walk back all of the potency changes that they gave it after the media tour that they were too proud to admit were a massive overshoot.
Creature Muse 1000 -> 1100
Mog 1100 -> 1300
Madeen 1300 -> 1400
Rainbow Drip 900 -> 1000
Star Prism 1300 -> 1400
Hammer 520/580/640 -> 560/620/680
RGB(W) 400/440/480 -> 440/480/520
CMY(K) 700/740/780 -> 800/840/880

If they'd just admitted they messed up and reverted all of these to their previous, more sane numbers, they wouldn't have needed to add all of the other potency bloat that we've gotten since 7.0. Would Picto still be the strongest job in Ultimate with those numbers? Almost certainly. But it would be close enough to the realm of mere mortals that taking a BLM instead of a PCT is like taking VPR instead of NIN, or SAM instead of MNK: a slightly suboptimal choice that a player can make for comfort or enjoyment, not a difference so stark that it's essentially griefing.

[Realfoxy]

If they'd just admitted they messed up and reverted all of these to their previous, more sane numbers, they wouldn't have needed to add all of the other potency bloat that we've gotten since 7.0. Would Picto still be the strongest job in Ultimate with those numbers? Almost certainly. But it would be close enough to the realm of mere mortals that taking a BLM instead of a PCT is like taking VPR instead of NIN, or SAM instead of MNK: a slightly suboptimal choice that a player can make for comfort or enjoyment, not a difference so stark that it's essentially griefing.

Yeah this is basically my attitude towards the whole thing. So long as Black Mage is still fun to play (that's whole different discussion for another thread), I don't care if I'm 3% behind PCT. Hell, I wouldn't even mind being 5%, 8% behind PCT.

But right now you could chuck a good 15% extra damage on Black Mage and there'd still be an argument over whether you should take PCT over BLM in ultimate. That's the size of the problem we're dealing with.

[Schan]

*reads title*

Yes

*leaves*

[NightHour]

It does.

It's miles ahead of everyone else.


And I don't mean like 5%, it's like 20%+ ahead of everyone else in both rDPS and cDPS, it's disgusting.


It's time to stop tip-toeing around the issue SE, Pictomancer does need a nerf and has needed one since it's release.


The fact that this job alone is the reason why the DPS checks feel lenient in FRU is problematic.


Either Picto needs to be nerfed or everyone else (including the ranged physicals) need to be brought within 5% of Picto.


Try going into FRU with a PCT and then without one - I promise you the DPS checks will be felt without the PCT.

[Connor]

What I don’t get is;

Where are all these players Yoshi-P keeps talking about that’ll get so upset is Pictomancer isn’t *checks notes* literally game/balance breaking levels of overpowered??

Like I literally cannot think of a single post on here or Reddit or anything where there were a bunch of people saying ‘if they EVER nerf Pictomancer in ANY way I will do voodoo on Yoshi-P shrivel up into a ball and cease to exist in physical space’ (lol)

It feels like he’s trying to appease a group…that doesn’t actually exist???

[Tsumdere]

Yes; PCT needs to be hit with the nerf bat harder than anything has before. It completely trivialized DPS checks, completely pushed other jobs out of the way to the point that they might as well not exist, and has literally changed the entire game's meta around it. PCT alone was absolutely the reason they made whole ass game system LB changes in ultimate and harmed the ultimate challenge run community. They realized that people would likely just take double PCT. People are already tossing around the idea of running double PCT anyways in FRU despite the LB gen nerf since it's likely you'll get LBs before you need them anyways. This is stupid. This is bad.

And yes; people are overthinking this far too much.

PCT in its current state cannot possibly be fully balanced in ultimates ever if they keep making ultimates downtime heavy + 2min meta. It CAN be nerfed though to make it less egregious. They can balance around Savage (because it's NOT balanced for savage either) - change some potencies knocking it down a few pegs so it's still competitive but not outdpsing fxxking everyone including selfish melees. Around the lower end of melees is more than generous considering it's mobile, has a raid buff, shields, and downtime burst. Naturally, potency changes will affect Ultimate.

There. PCT has been nerfed to not be so far ahead of everyone. It keeps its rotation and uniqueness. It will still be top in ultimates, but wouldn't feel as horribly unfair.