Feedback for Summoner

[Ggwppino]

Whoever told you ifrit’s hardcasts are a DPS loss has literally no idea what they are talking about

The only “kernel of truth” in that statement is that in its launch state in EW ifrit had a lower PPS (potency per second) than titan who is easier to execute due to being all instants so they buffed ifrit but even before that buff ifrit was always a gain over ruin 3.

The only time you shouldn’t be using primal abilities over ruin 1/2/3 is a wonky level range in the 50’s and 60’s where garuda’s aspected ruin 2’s are a loss over just casting ruin 2

It depends on the level. At level 70, hard casting ruin 3 offers more pps than ruby, emerald and topaz ruin 3.
This friend was probably doing UCOB.

[AvoSturmfaust]

It depends on the level. At level 70, hard casting ruin 3 offers more pps than ruby, emerald and topaz ruin 3.
This friend was probably doing UCOB.

Even then its not true, at 70 PPS Ifrit is a gain, Titan is neutral, Garu is a loss

[Ggwppino]

Even then its not true, at 70 PPS Ifrit is a gain, Titan is neutral, Garu is a loss

Am I missing something?
in EW, R3 was 310p, so you was almost right, but with DT they buffed it.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Am I missing something?
in EW, R3 was 310p, so you was almost right, but with DT they buffed it.

Ye you miss the part where the increase to 360 comes from a Lv.94 Perk which you dont have at Lv. 70, the Jobguide shows the final Potencys with all Perks etc at 70 it should do iirc around 300, 84 increased it to 310 and 94 to 360

[Ggwppino]

Ye you miss the part where the increase to 360 comes from a Lv.94 Perk which you dont have at Lv. 70, the Jobguide shows the final Potencys with all Perks etc at 70 it should do iirc around 300, 84 increased it to 310 and 94 to 360

fair enough, mb

[Zarkovitch]

day 225, SMN clan got defeated by picto nation due to there damage. Red Mage nation is getting more more utilty than us and they exceed on dmg without the rng. Are we become the jack of all trade master of none? Or our job is so bad right now they cannot fit caster spot like we used too? No, it must be a skill issue.. not a dev issue.

[Supersnow845]

day 225, SMN clan got defeated by picto nation due to there damage. Red Mage nation is getting more more utilty than us and they exceed on dmg without the rng. Are we become the jack of all trade master of none? Or our job is so bad right now they cannot fit caster spot like we used too? No, it must be a skill issue.. not a dev issue.

No its 100% a dev issue because they made SMN the beige Lego stacker it is today that has no rotational diversity, flexibility or complexity to justify it doing anything but the worst damage possible

Like RDM has more utility and does more damage but it also doesn’t play itself

[Carighan]

No its 100% a dev issue because they made SMN the beige Lego stacker it is today that has no rotational diversity, flexibility or complexity to justify it doing anything but the worst damage possible

And it's so annoying because of how close it is to true flexibility and hence depth of combat while also not being drowned in 4265 buttons for tons of complexity (but 0 depth) like most other combat jobs are.

It's sooooo close. It just needs:

* Alternative sets of minor summons that fill the same role but work different mechanically, and you get random draws so you cannot rely on your mechanics for the next minute and need to actually be flexible.
* Minor summons being different other than "fully mobile" vs "casted". Which isn't difficult either, plus those two are good categories, so make it one button always casted, but top DPS, one button 100% mobile, but medium DPS, one button support-y, but low DPS. You need to use all 3 anyways so it's not like this isn't easy to work into a balanced DPS setup.

The underlying core is brilliant, props to whichever dev cooked that up. The implementing devs just did ~nothing with that core, which is super annoying.

[Sylvain]

It's sooooo close. It just needs:

* Alternative sets of minor summons that fill the same role but work different mechanically, and you get random draws so you cannot rely on your mechanics for the next minute and need to actually be flexible.
* Minor summons being different other than "fully mobile" vs "casted". Which isn't difficult either, plus those two are good categories, so make it one button always casted, but top DPS, one button 100% mobile, but medium DPS, one button support-y, but low DPS. You need to use all 3 anyways so it's not like this isn't easy to work into a balanced DPS setup.

The underlying core is brilliant, props to whichever dev cooked that up. The implementing devs just did ~nothing with that core, which is super annoying.

My take on that is that they'd need the 3 extra new summon, Shiva Ramuh and Leviathan.

In order to summon the 2min burst, so currently Sol Bahamut, all 6 must be summoned
Each summon has a degree of movement freedom. For instance, Titan has currently perfect freedom, garuda is in between (not counting SC) and Ifrit has the highest restriction.

If you'd do

Titan : 100% instant + ogcd weaving
Shiva : Melee combo (instant) + 1 1.5s cast finisher
Garuda : 5 instants + 1 bigger cast
Leviathan : Slower and Slower cast + Utility teleport (dash) ogcd for quick
Ifrit : 2 long cast + melee dash/combo
Ramuh : Leyline style 0 movement allowed.

With that you have a gradiant of "I can move around and dps while doing mech" and "I can't move much, if at all and I should definitely not be used during a high movement mechanic"

Because there are 6 summons, even something as impractical as Ramuh (imagine a ten-chi-jin u CANT move) for 12.5s wouldn't be so bad because every single encounter have at least a 12s window where no movement is required once every 2min.

Because all 6 are needed, you cannot (shouldnt) do "Titan > Shiva > Garuda" in a row because you'd end up being extremely restricted for the next minute. The idea would really just be "triage your summon and mobility".

No need to move? Ramuh
Might have to move a bit? Ifrit/Leviathan
This is gonna be wack I'll surely pop sprint, Titan/Shiva/Garuda.

On top of that, rework burst phase a little bit to make them less boring and SMN would just be really nice.

I agree that every role should have easy job but I feel like PIC and RDM have about the right amount of simplicity in their kit and SMN with its current system could become a really interesting job with unique rotation as in "For this fight, we'd recommend that summoning order"

[chip793]

Cyclone's potency is a reward for planning when to use Ifrit in a fight's timeline. I haven't had issues with it beyond the times I'm just brain AFK in an EX where I just use it last, in actual content it's actually very rewarding to learn its best windows. Chaotic has a fun one with the hands debuff where if you have it up you can just ignore the memory part of the mechanic provided you still take it away from the alliance. My only real gripe with the job is the 2nd minute using the same three Lego summons. If they don't give us a second set for 8.0 I'll cry, it's the one thing I wanted for DT. Solar is cool and Lux IS useful, but there's a clear window for something new in the form of another triple summon set for regular Bahamut/Phoenix phase.