Why people are bad at the game, and why they never learn to play it.

[AllenThyl]

At any point, did you see anyone in this discussion say that DPS are exempt from basic requirements? No, what you saw was that standards are lower because encounter design makes their value negligible enough that one can be completely missing and it has no impact on the binary success or failure of the duty. This doesn't exempt them from engaging at a minimum level.

If the only criteria you have is "is the duty completed in the allotted time", then yes, you are correct. That's why I said you have no empathy, since you have no regard for the fact that other people do value their time. And might not appreciate having it pointlessly wasted by people who should be in therapy for their video game addiction or use the already available NPCs to get through the duties, instead of leeching.

No they can't, because they have no way of reliably controlling aggro. They can sometimes temporarily survive if focused, but that's not tanking. Tanking is a binary. You either have the tools or you don't, and DPS don't havr the tools.

Ah, so tanking is "binary", but dps is a stacking function? My man, and I mean this with the utmost empathy, you are utterly delusional. This is what happens when you start to internalize the enabler rhetoric. Binary tanking would be "dps instantly dies from attack". They don't. Especially not in the normal content that we are talking about. A DPS tanking is annoying, because they require more healing, and very likely some rezzes. But it's not impossible. The pulls have to be smaller, and some mobs might have to be CCed. So the dungeon will take longer. But so will a dungeon where the DPS don't bother to do their jobs and deal proper damage!

No, you mistake not having any interest in pressuring people in duty finder to hit a pace that is beyond the success or failure point with some bizarre concept of "person playing a game queues for a duty with 3 perfect strangers and expects others to value getting the duty done 3-5 minutes faster as much as they do".

"Pressuring people". Gods man, are you dramatic. I am starting to get the feeling that you speak from experience here, and I suspect that the frustration was pretty justified on the other people's end. Also, since the "3-5" minutes is so often thrown around: 5 minutes added to a 16 min run is 30% more. That's not "nothing". That adds up quite a lot of time when doing the content a lot. And pointlessly added to it, because some people don't want to do the absolute bare minimum for their role that they queue with. Which again, is only an argument for people who actually care about other people's time and fun, not for people completely lacking in empathy.

Not if you have any integrity. There is a difference between having the ability and not using it and expecting everyone else to play at your expectation level. A difference you SHOULD understand, but either don't, or don't care.

As I said, you don't even understand how toxic this attitude is. You don't get people to have more patience and understanding when you demand they do all the work, but should be unable to expect at least a mediocum of competence from their fellow teammates. The problem is, that the game design itself is pretty much build on the notion that a smaller population of skilled players will carry the larger part of the playerbase through most content. But as I said, you are so used to being carried, you don't even know what a party with your attitude is like.

The topic was expert dungeons, 4 man content, changing to optional alliance raids and boss mechanics. Try to stick to the subject, but since you felt the need, we can go there.

Your reading comprehension is 7th grade level. I gave you one specific context for a question, while the broader topic is still about people doing the bare minimum. To pretend that normal and alliance raids aren't on the same trivial level as normal dungeons is just laughable.

Sometimes raids fail. This is a fact of life, especially with a pick up raid such as one finds in duty finder. If you aren't prepared for that potential inevitability going in, that's a you problem.

Normal and alliance raids are trivial content. There might be wipes when too many people are new, but one of these instances outright failing is an indictment of the playerbase.

The topic was 4 man extreme duties, and the meaning is that you move past learning content

Expert dungeons aren't "extreme duties". They are trivial content. Yes, if you are new, there might be a few wipes, and yes, I get that some mechanics like the confusion arrow are a real road block for some. But you don't "progg" these dungeons. There is nothing to put them on "farm status within a week", especially when you don't even optimize for clear time. Being able to clear an expert dungeon within the 90 minutes you get is not an achievement, it's the absolute bare minimum. Even the NPCs are able to clear the dungeon on their own in less time. And they are deliberately scaled to be "worse than any player party".

What my expectations for other people are has no bearing on my play. Trying to optimize progress per unit of time for my own performance, something that differs with each role, has no impact on what I expect other people to do. You seem to not get that expectations on yourself can differ from your expectations of other people.

"optimize progress per unit of time". What an absolute meaningless statement. The fact that you dance around dps / clear times says it all.

Or it's so insignificant that it requires no effort at all, and if it does, it's with minimal effort.

And yet, as this discussion has shown, even asking for that minimal effort is too much to ask.

Complaints about passing regular dungeons and even more so, alliance raids are quite ridiculous. You've already spent some time in the queue or partially completing the dungeon, what's the point of leaving it halfway or getting a penalty for the queue?

The unwillingness to waste anymore time with a bunch of buffoons who failed the same, highly telegraphed mechanic for the 4th time despite there being a danger dorito running around literally showing people where the safe spot it. Again, this is like playing sports with people uninterested in playing the sport.

I'm the person who often slacks off on alliance raids, but is it my fault that most of them are incredibly boring and don't require effort or my personal permanent attention?
The last alliance raid Endwalker is literally a sleeping pill for me. Horrible, soothing ambient, slightly lazy combat... Zzz. Do you really want to blame me for literally falling asleep in a dungeon because it's so uninteresting? (By the way, this is why I love 70 and 80 alliance raids. They are extremely rare in roullete, but they are always fun).

You are not responsible for the fight design. However, you are responsible for what you do. If you slack in a group duty, that is 100% on you. If you weren't there, maybe someone else would have taken your place who wouldn't slack. Which I am reasonably sure, is usually preferred by everyone else. But that argument of course only works for people who even care about anyone else.

If you go to a solo queue in any role, you by default agree that you can throw three sprouts into it, with whom you will have to babysit.

Sprouts are sprouts. People in max level raids with hundreds of hours playtime using Drill only twice in a 10 minute fight aren't "sprouts to babysit".