Quote Originally Posted by AllenThyl View Post
Why though? Why is it reasonable to expect healers and tanks to do their basic function, but DPS are exempt from the same kind of expectation doing their role (i.e. damage). .
At any point, did you see anyone in this discussion say that DPS are exempt from basic requirements? No, what you saw was that standards are lower because encounter design makes their value negligible enough that one can be completely missing and it has no impact on the binary success or failure of the duty. This doesn't exempt them from engaging at a minimum level.


Why? DPS can tank, not as well as tanks, yes, but they can..
No they can't, because they have no way of reliably controlling aggro. They can sometimes temporarily survive if focused, but that's not tanking. Tanking is a binary. You either have the tools or you don't, and DPS don't havr the tools.


Similarly, tanks and healers do damage, but not as well DPS.
I see you're entirely unfamiliar with the gaming concept of stackability, and how it influences encounter design.

Damage, as a function stacks. All members of a group can do it simultaneously, whereas Tanking doesn't, it is unique to tanks, as is healing to healers. Both of those roles are essential in a binary pass/fail condition. There are pass/fail conditions to ensure that "if tank does not do minimum performance of job, then fail", which holds true also for healers. This means that if you are to succeed at the bare minimum of finishing a duty, you must perform at the if/then level.

This isn't opinion, or players' expectations, this is just plain old encounter design. DPS very very rarely has a pass/fail condition, and even when they do, it is set so low that the likelihood of it affecting the outcome of a normal duty is so low as to be nonexistent.

The first 2 levelling dungeons of every expansion can be quite spicy even for experienced people when doing wall to wall pulls (especially for some tanks due to lack of mitigation tools at that level). DPS not doing their job can lead to tanks running out of mitigations and healers having to pump out GCD heals. And that actually can wipe a group.
Your failure analysis is flawed. The fail point in this very rare scenario isn't DPS, it's the tank. There is no requirement to WTW while undergeared, and them doing so is what leads to wipes. That is a choice that the tank has, and has nothing to do with a binary pass/fail condition of DPS.


Ohh, "that's just the way it is" ... I see. Why precisely does that kind of argument only apply to lazy DPS?
Yeah, repeating a stupid question over and over doesn't make it all of a sudden have a different answer. The success or failure of a duty doesn't hinge on the DPS role like it does the other two. Take it up with Square, not me that DPS players have less impact than the other two roles.

Breaking this into two posts due to character limit.