About DAWNTRAIL SMN and future

[Sifpatata]

First of all I want to clarify that I have been playing since shadowbringers and I want to clarify that there is a big difference between the SMN of shadowbringers and the current SMN.

The changes are not bad if they are well done, for example as main SMN I love having Ifrit, titan and garuda in the rotation, instead of spaming ruin 3. However there is a big flaw in this rework, bahamut and fenix, both basically do the same thing and now we have 2 bahamuts that do the same thing, something has to change for 8.0.

when you think of SMN, a wide variety of summons come to mind, not only bahamut (alexander and odin for example), i think most of the main SMN want variety, we want each summon to do something different, for example garuda can use dots, titan a mitigator and ifrit a full dps.

We don't want more bahamut's, we want variety in the rotation not always the same, what is the purpose of solar bahamut if the normal bahamut can do the same damage if he gets buffed? Instead of bahamut they could put ODIN or Alexander.

[Daralii]

We've fought 44 Primals across all main and side content, and SMN has yet to see anything beyond the original trio, Bahamut, and Phoenix. The devs are clearly not interested in incorporating any of the others, so I have long since given up and am expecting the 110 capstone to be a second Phoenix.

[CNitsah]

We've fought 44 Primals across all main and side content, and SMN has yet to see anything beyond the original trio, Bahamut, and Phoenix. The devs are clearly not interested in incorporating any of the others, so I have long since given up and am expecting the 110 capstone to be a second Phoenix.

New version of Bahamut is pretty obviously a placeholder for Haedelyn, but somewhere along the way they realise it would be too spoilery for everyone. This is the one move that deserved lore building and a job quest.

[Manamaru]

We've fought 44 Primals across all main and side content, and SMN has yet to see anything beyond the original trio, Bahamut, and Phoenix. The devs are clearly not interested in incorporating any of the others, so I have long since given up and am expecting the 110 capstone to be a second Phoenix.

If you noticed how the 90's summon animations, attack, and disappear animations are basically lifted from Heaven on High's magicite (and where it was placed elsewhere) you'd be scratching your head why they haven't at least added Odin into the mix of summons. But they can't bring themselves to include any actual other primals, it seems.

I’m still trying to figure out if square is happy with EW SMN or if they regret it...

EW summoner is a blend of FF16's Clive's "imbue yourself with primal energy and unleash attacks" mixed with bits of what previously remained with the previous incarnations of summoner and order of bahamut to phoenix. The previous versions with the egi's still have some pathing issue that sends it to head straight for the target when it should no longer do that.

No doubts they have some regrets for how things turned out. But they are holding out on giving more than just 5 summons. Picto's subtractive pallete mode shows how you could keep switching to at least another 5 different summons if they kept following the "1, 2, 3, bahamut, 1 , 2 , 3 , phoenix" rotation. Would they ever introduce something like that? Highly doubtful.
When EW change also happened, I don't know who thought it'd be a good idea to make one of the raid fights, proto-carbuncle, have all the DOTs and other stuff that you used to be able to do. It was like a slap in the face and rubbing your face in it. Hence I'll never do that raid series.

[PorxiesRCute]

A hundred bucks says they regret introducing SMN in the first place and would delete it if they could do so without breaking the game.

[Jeeqbit]

They seem to have had good intentions adding this other version of Bahamut.

But it just wasn't a good decision or what anyone was looking for. Everyone was talking about other possibilities such as Ramuh, Shiva or Leviathan.

[Supersnow845]

I’m still trying to figure out if square is happy with EW SMN or if they regret it

Admittedly no job really got good fundamental changes in DT but SMN really seemed like the one where they redid it and 5 seconds later they are already out of ideas for how to make it better given how damn rigid it is despite how easy it is

I wonder if they actually have any idea or if they kinda regret nuking old SMN when it would have been easy to do a half rework they could draw more space in the rotation out of without locking them into modern rigid SMN

[Collin_Sky]

they are already out of ideas for how to make it better given how damn rigid it is despite how easy it is

This describes every single job.

[mallleable]

Three big things I think will make SMN play better is 1. more summons, 2. summons are more mechanically diverse, and 3. cast times on the actual summon buttons.

[Destati]

FFX has my favorite iteration of Summoners (and the designs of the summons themselves) and it will forever remain that way; needless to say FFXIV's interpretation of them is rather disappointing to me by comparison. Not a fan of how the egis look or how limited the glamour options are with them, and I don't like the rigid rotation of cycling through each summon.

If I were re-designing the job I would merge it with PCT (PCT not already being a thing in this scenario) and sprinkle in a bit of BLU. The basis of PCT and ACN/SMN's magic is already turning ink/paint to life
Make its "rotation" more freeform like PCT, with the motifs corresponding to different primals. Like a BLU's spell loadout someone can pick and choose what kind of primals they want to use for their actions for a nice bit of customization (and these choices are purely aesthetic. And of course you could either have an egi or appropriately-downsized primal following you around.

I'm not gonna pretend I know anything about job design, that's just what sounds nice to me.

For now at the very least I'd just want a Proto-Carbuncle following me around...