Rework Riase

[BabyYoda]

Or you could just standardize Raise as a 'Phoenix Down' ranged role action (with a fixed number of uses, contingent on content difficulty, and no MP cost) and have it no longer count against a job's DPS output.

I have though of this before and I think it will have an issue regarding the balance.

So I suggest there is a raise mages which is healers,
and support dps which cannot raise, but they can lower death timer by 50% or 25% which is a mid between having a raise and not having raise at all.

it will keep their identity of having utility to reduce death timer and also removing the idea of nerfing them to the ground because they have raise

[BabyYoda]

I have though of this before and I think it will have an issue regarding the balance.

So I suggest there is a raise mages which is healers,
and support dps which cannot raise, but they can lower death timer by 50% or 25% which is a mid between having a raise and not having raise at all.

it will keep their identity of having utility to reduce death timer and also removing the idea of nerfing them to the ground because they have raise

this is a lot of needless complexity you're trying to shoehorn into the game, all to remove a lot of the identity behind RDM and SMN, two of the more well received jobs in the current design philosophy dumpster fire

no thanks, cool story tho

if an identity is causing a balance issue then the identity do not need to be removed, but reworked an adjusted

[mallleable]

I think it would just be easier to replace Verraise with like Vermedica or something, and buff RDM's damage. I have Thoughts™ on why Verraise is actually hurting RDM's identity that because of it, RDM is basically forced to play permanently 'white shifted' when RDM is all about balance.

And then rework Summon Phoenix, make it like a 3 minute cool down separate from SMN's damage rotation, and lock a couple of instant rez charges behind the summon while also buffing it's regen capabilities. Should water down SMN rezzes enough to also warrant some damage buffs, and gives SMN a pretty cool, and thematic situational summon.

And finally reduce the cast time on healer rezzes down to 3 seconds. If we're removing rez responsibilities from DPS, then it needs to be made easier on healers.

[BabyYoda]

I think it would just be easier to replace Verraise with like Vermedica or something, and buff RDM's damage. I have Thoughts™ on why Verraise is actually hurting RDM's identity that because of it, RDM is basically forced to play permanently 'white shifted' when RDM is all about balance.

And then rework Summon Phoenix, make it like a 3 minute cool down separate from SMN's damage rotation, and lock a couple of instant rez charges behind the summon while also buffing it's regen capabilities. Should water down SMN rezzes enough to also warrant some damage buffs, and gives SMN a pretty cool, and thematic situational summon.

And finally reduce the cast time on healer rezzes down to 3 seconds. If we're removing rez responsibilities from DPS, then it needs to be made easier on healers.

well, your suggestion is valid, but I don't think Vermedica would be enough of an identity,

Increasing summoner raise to 3 min is also a solution but raise is a raise, it will still an issue and if SMN and PCT have same damage SMN will be superior because they has a game-changing too powerful of a spell.

Instant cast raise for healer is actually healthy for the game,you can balance it by having higher cooldowns

[mallleable]

well, your suggestion is valid, but I don't think Vermedica would be enough of an identity,

Increasing summoner raise to 3 min is also a solution but raise is a raise, it will still an issue and if SMN and PCT have same damage SMN will be superior because they has a game-changing too powerful of a spell.

Instant cast raise for healer is actually healthy for the game,you can balance it by having higher cooldowns

RDM's core mechanical identity is actually Dual Cast. The job fundamentally cannot exist with out Dual Cast, but I think it can survive pretty easily with out Verraise. Vermedica would just be a simple AOE heal spell, and would have more general uses, and interacts quite nicely with Dual Cast whereas Verraise is only useful when party members have been KO'd. The clutch play would become about keeping people alive, and preventing deaths versus scraping them off the floor after the fact like how it's played now.

Here is why locking rezzes behind Phoenix might work. Phoenix would have other things it can do like deal some damage, dish out some heals, the excog, and the rezzes. By presenting so many other choices to players, the rezzes lose a lot of weight. Phoenix would also have a limited time for when you can actually use everything. Maybe you use it during down time for the heals or maybe you found some sweaty spot to squeeze out some extra damage. The ability, and SMN gets balance around the possibility of the rezzes not being used. Compared to RDM where Verraise's only use is to raise, and why I think it's a little more problematic that SMN's rez.

Heck, Phoenix rezzes could even work like re-raisers where you put a buff on someone, and they only rez if they get KO'd making it even trickier to use it as rez tool.

[BabyYoda]

RDM's core mechanical identity is actually Dual Cast. The job fundamentally cannot exist with out Dual Cast, but I think it can survive pretty easily with out Verraise. Vermedica would just be a simple AOE heal spell, and would have more general uses, and interacts quite nicely with Dual Cast whereas Verraise is only useful when party members have been KO'd. The clutch play would become about keeping people alive, and preventing deaths versus scraping them off the floor after the fact like how it's played now.

Here is why locking rezzes behind Phoenix might work. Phoenix would have other things it can do like deal some damage, dish out some heals, the excog, and the rezzes. By presenting so many other choices to players, the rezzes lose a lot of weight. Phoenix would also have a limited time for when you can actually use everything. Maybe you use it during down time for the heals or maybe you found some sweaty spot to squeeze out some extra damage. The ability, and SMN gets balance around the possibility of the rezzes not being used. Compared to RDM where Verraise's only use is to raise, and why I think it's a little more problematic that SMN's rez.

Heck, Phoenix rezzes could even work like re-raisers where you put a buff on someone, and they only rez if they get KO'd making it even trickier to use as a rez tool.

Dual cast is mechanically its core identity, and essentially RDM kit is mix between WHM and BLM.. they can take spells from both kits, but not all like Xeno from BLM and your suggestion that Raise also.

While I see that AOE healing is a great addition to RDM kit, but RDM got introduced with insta cast raise in 4.0, that was a huge mistake, people now attach raise with RDM.

the idea of summoner could give living dead buff to party is appealing NGL, but it to balance it is so hard,

like if we are imagining SMN do same damage as BLM why do someone want to play BLM?

this is the idea that I feel rezz fall apart, it is the strongest ability in the game more than Homegang and hollowed ground.

giving it free for DPS is a mistake even if it 1 time per party,

in the end we will reach to the point where SMN have lower damage than other DPS because of phenix rezz

[Exinias]

Raise is fine.

[Shurrikhan]

I think it would just be easier to replace Verraise with like Vermedica or something, and buff RDM's damage. I have Thoughts™ on why Verraise is actually hurting RDM's identity that because of it, RDM is basically forced to play permanently 'white shifted' when RDM is all about balance.

It'd be less abusable if we just had Dualcast and Acceleration reduce cast times by just 4 or 5 seconds. That would still allow for all the other casts to be instant, but you wouldn't have nigh-infinite truly instant rezzes limited only by your MP.

Apart from that, I'd rather see Phoenix Down as a duty action with a 5s or 8s melee-range cast with 2 charges shared across the party (~3 minute recast), or even a healer self-revive as part of healer LB, with each instance of healing and MP recovery from said LB being halved if the rez is necessary, and the penalty duration being halved on LB2 and of course nullified on LB3. Doing so would deemphasize SMN/RDM without wholly removing their utility.

I do not want to see Raise made an action specific to any particular role. As a BLM or PCT, I wouldn't particularly want it, yet outside a given role, I may nonetheless want it, though with limitations.

[PercibelTheren]

Raise is not an issue, it's an excuse. Just like party utility and everything else.

[BabyYoda]

Raise is not an issue, it's an excuse. Just like party utility and everything else.

but it is an issue,

if SMN and BLM do the same damage,, why do someone play BLM?

having the strongest healer spell in the game in DPS jobs will cause a balance issue