Raise and the balance issue

[ZephyrMenodora]

Love having raise on my summoner, and a healer dying should not be a lose condition. You should be able to plan around a healer dying by adding a SMN/RDM.

I'm happy to give up some DPS for the utility on SMN. If I hated it so much and needed to top a parse I'd play something else. We have options.

[Daralii]

Because the dev team simply can't balancing around it, thus two jobs are forever stuck being miles behind their direct competition. It's not by a 100 DPS either. Pictro currently pulls over 2,000 cDPS above both Red Mage and Summoner. In this tier alone, Picto's representation in Savage completely cannibalized the entire role. The problem with this type of support is it's only valuable when needed and useless otherwise. Which makes the tax simply far too high. The only reason we haven't seen as much of a pushback prior was because Black Mage was relatively difficulty to play well. That isn't the case with Picto. It's not Summoner levels of simplistic by any means but it's pretty much in line with everything else.

Now why does all this matter? If you can skip mechanics or push through damage downs/deaths, you've eliminated a potential failure state. Case in point, Xeno's infamous babyrage video about Gunbreaker. Him swapping off the much weaker Warrior allowed his team to make more mistakes because the tremendous damage difference between both jobs gave them flexibility. Then you have to consider players who dislike their job functionally only being "good" when things go horribly wrong and disliked otherwise. A lot of Red Mages don't want to just be "the rez b" but that's essentially what the job is because it simply can't compete with Picto. The irony is way back in Shadowbringers, Red Mage wasn't that far behind Black Mage. So they can balance them but have intentionally chosen to make this gap so massive.

On the whole, a compromise would simply be leaving Raise alone in casual content and slapping a long CD for Savage/Ultimate.

Raise is not the deciding factor in that, it's that PCT does far too much and released very overtuned, but the devs refuse to actually nerf it because they're terrified of potential complaints. They're evidently fine with complaints about everything else.

[IDontPetLalas]

Because the dev team simply can't balancing around it, thus two jobs are forever stuck being miles behind their direct competition. It's not by a 100 DPS either. Pictro currently pulls over 2,000 cDPS above both Red Mage and Summoner. In this tier alone, Picto's representation in Savage completely cannibalized the entire role. The problem with this type of support is it's only valuable when needed and useless otherwise. Which makes the tax simply far too high. The only reason we haven't seen as much of a pushback prior was because Black Mage was relatively difficulty to play well. That isn't the case with Picto. It's not Summoner levels of simplistic by any means but it's pretty much in line with everything else.

Now why does all this matter? If you can skip mechanics or push through damage downs/deaths, you've eliminated a potential failure state. Case in point, Xeno's infamous babyrage video about Gunbreaker. Him swapping off the much weaker Warrior allowed his team to make more mistakes because the tremendous damage difference between both jobs gave them flexibility. Then you have to consider players who dislike their job functionally only being "good" when things go horribly wrong and disliked otherwise. A lot of Red Mages don't want to just be "the rez b" but that's essentially what the job is because it simply can't compete with Picto. The irony is way back in Shadowbringers, Red Mage wasn't that far behind Black Mage. So they can balance them but have intentionally chosen to make this gap so massive.

On the whole, a compromise would simply be leaving Raise alone in casual content and slapping a long CD for Savage/Ultimate.

I agree overall, however I find that compromise to be rather odd. I would rather have a lengthier CD on raise in all content - I don't see that it would cause undue hardship in normal content.

[Mercury_Grey]

Love having raise on my summoner, and a healer dying should not be a lose condition. You should be able to plan around a healer dying by adding a SMN/RDM.

I'm happy to give up some DPS for the utility on SMN. If I hated it so much and needed to top a parse I'd play something else. We have options.

Honestly I agree, I have had parties carried by the one or two party members who went SMN/RDM or both. If we had to lose let's say 500 DPS but got more utility and buffs by a RDM/SMN in the party then i'm all for it

[Rolder50]

Could copy WoW and just make it so you only get a raise every couple minutes into a fight (they accumulate). Probably only for Ex and above, not for alliance raids and dungeons.

[technole]

The raise tax is justified, it's part of utility.

Even the US world first FRU clear had each healer die once in the final phases and clear without issue. Of course their makeup just happened to be PCT, RDM, SCH, and AST.

Many world firsts in the past never had a caster raise, because damage is the best mitigation in the game.

Could copy WoW and just make it so you only get a raise every couple minutes into a fight (they accumulate). Probably only for Ex and above, not for alliance raids and dungeons.

There is already limited or limited % chance raises content in the game like BA or DR Savage. YoshiP has no intention on making this a standard in regular savage or ultimate tiers.