I gotta get this out of my system or imma lose my mind

[Carighan]

Yeah I just let people who grief die on PLD and WAR, then do my pulls as normal. I do wall-to-wall pulls already, if I hold back 1 GCD it's because I had not actually hit the entire group. I do this for a reason. All they do is make it slower by dragging mobs away from me that then take longer to pick up due to the slow GCD compared to other games + an extra GCD to take things off them. It's different if they intentionally bring mobs, but this happens less often than you think, most of the time they just run into a pack, decide "here" is a good place to stand, then AoE and wonder why the tank is elsewhere picking up the 3 other mobs they didn't collect that then ran off to the healer, and now the tank used their extra gapcloser, cannot gapclose to the melee who ran in, and now has to walk over. Annoying as hell when people do that without at least talking about it first so the tank knows to expect it and can plan ability CDs around it so the pulls never have to slow down because AoEs only hit some of the mobs instead of all of them.

I usually explain it first though. Granted, with sprout-healers I always ask then whether they want wall-to-wall or single pack, and I respect their choice. And I hope DPS in groups can respect that choice, too. Everyone was a sprout once.

If someone get rage-y after that, salt-stocks-are-on-the-rise macro the first time, vote kick the second.

[inhaledcorn]

Yeah I just let those people die on PLD and WAR, then do my pulls as normal (since I can easily survive them anyways). I do wall-to-wall pulls, if I hold back 1 GCD it's because I had not actually hit the entire group. I do this for a reason.

I usually explain it first though. Granted, with sprout-healers I always ask then whether they want wall-to-wall or single pack, and I respect their choice.

If someone get rage-y after that, salt-stocks-are-on-the-rise macro the first time, vote kick the second.

Imagine admitting to breaking the ToS on the official forums, lmao

[Dante131]

what exactly breaks the ToS there ?

[MikoRemi]

what exactly breaks the ToS there ?

Intentionally allowing MPK because the tank doesn't want to do their job. If the other jobs pull ahead of you, either you're far too slow, or there's professionals at work using Arm's Length to save you a cooldown, or save you a use of your ranged gcd so you can go ahead and AoE right away.

A good tank pulls the mobs regardless of who does it first, a sad tank has the "you pull you tank" mentality. Run goes smoother for everyone if everyone does their job so as the tank, grab mobs and pull wall to wall. Thanks~.

[Lyth]

This thread topic comes up a fair bit, so here's where it fits in the standard tanking skill progression chart:



The journey of a thousand yalms begins with a single step.

[Carighan]

Intentionally allowing MPK because the tank doesn't want to do their job

MPK? What is that?

Also you might have misunderstood my post, I meant that I kick them if they are both belligerent and try to grief the party. Which has, sadly (given FFXIV's usual reputation), become a significant issue since Dawntrail. Marked shift in attitude from many dungeon runners, newcomers who ask to do smaller pulls get yelled at and laughed and if you try to tell the offending person to calm it, they just fly completely off the rails. And if they're already doing physical griefing like tagging mobs then not (which is intentional after all) bringing them to where the tank collected all the other 10 mobs, then honestly... it's time for them to calm down outside the dungeon maybe? I mean at that point what do you want to do? If you accept that behavior, it just proliferates, and you got one less newbie healer because they play something else instead.

(Though the same holds true when you're the healer and the tank is not confident in doing wall-to-wall or large mass pulls, of course)

(edit)
Ah I found what MPK means, yeah that's what I mean, if someone tries to grief the group by bringing in extra mobs even after explanation, it's time for them to step outside the dungeon maybe? Like I said above I can easily survive that so I don't mind if they kill themselves bringing those mobs, but in particular with a sprout healer who asks for careful pulls it's just super not okay to then fly off the rails and just bring more and more mobs to the tank. Again I can survive that, but it's not the point, if the healer asked and nobody said something against it and hence silently agreed with them, DBAA later.

[Derio]

Actually small pulls are bad from a mitigation standpoint, especially at 90-100 range. I know some people like to take it slow and enjoy the sights but that is why I highly recommend to do a first playthrough of a dungeon with trusts first because those are designed around both small and large pulls. You have to respect people's time and effort and small pulls do not do that.

[kiotsukete]

Ah I found what MPK means, yeah that's what I mean, if someone tries to grief the group by bringing in extra mobs even after explanation, it's time for them to step outside the dungeon maybe? Like I said above I can easily survive that so I don't mind if they kill themselves bringing those mobs, but in particular with a sprout healer who asks for careful pulls it's just super not okay to then fly off the rails and just bring more and more mobs to the tank.

Actually, the poster above is trying to say that you are the one committing MPK by letting other players die, who pull ahead of you. However, as a DPS main, I personally agree with your perspective and I think the ToS is on your side.

SE’s list of Prohibited Activities defines MPK as:
"◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" is an act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out or obstructing another person's gameplay."

Source:
https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...9;s%20gameplay.

So per ToS, if someone is KO’d or otherwise has their gameplay obstructed because a player pulled mobs (“sending a monster towards another person”) before other players are ready (ie tank and/or healer) that player is the one guilty of MPK not the tank for not pulling mobs off them.

We can argue if it’s the right/good thing to do or not, but taking the attitude of “you pull, you tank and if you die that’s on you” is not against ToS.

[Dante131]

Actually small pulls are bad from a mitigation standpoint, especially at 90-100 range. I know some people like to take it slow and enjoy the sights but that is why I highly recommend to do a first playthrough of a dungeon with trusts first because those are designed around both small and large pulls. You have to respect people's time and effort and small pulls do not do that.

Look i know and see this argument i pref fast pulls aswell but i think we need some middlepoint. We are on crossroads here ( hehe thinking i am funny for using the patch name ... god i need another hobby ) if you set fix that big w2w pulls are the way the game is played by rule like tos or se officially state this is the way the game have to be played then you will encounter an even larger drop in the tank role, because people who wants it to be slow and chill will just not play it. in the first thinking it might be a win for you until the queue time gets so high that you will wait more then 10 minutes.

On the other half you can turn it around and tell everyone too chill the pulls and play slow, which will offend the other side. What we need is to get a middlepoint on which all can agree instead of throwing a tendrum on both sides. Its not okay just to go slow because you want to annoy other, BUT it is okay beeing slower if you are not confidant period and no level is not an idicator for it. You can level a job without playing it in this game so i would not assume everyone knows what they are doing + not everyone is on the same level. Its okay to ask them too be faster or give tips its not okay to force them. I dont even think it have something too do with people are not respecting your time.

Basicly its 2 worlds collapse together and none wants to reach out a hand which is sad since this community been so much better with this topic earlier.

So Solutions what could it be?

- be the tank yourselve ( if you are the tank you can decide atleast the how fast and how much too pull thing )
- other dungeon design
- dungeon difficulty level
- toggle for fast and slow run while joining the df
- get more confidence as a tank
- SPEAK AND LISTEN

the last point is actually a middle point in my point of view.

[Dante131]

to make it clear here i have an example of a dungeon run i had lately.

Joined as GNB for leveling and got the lvl 61 dungeon. On the ship i saw that the WHM was spamming cure 2. i saw his sprout symbol and was thinking okay maybe new or not confidant, so i asked if i should slow down with pulling. Got ignored which i admit got me a little angry. "maybe console player " since most of the time consoly players dont chat in my expierience. So i thought i will not pull the whole wall because i didnt trust the healer and me to this point got not enough self heal. What happened next ? The BLM probably thought "TaNk DoNt ReSpEcT mY tImE" and pulled the next grps. surprise healer was not healing him got stressed out BLM died. After beeing close 2 death i recognized healer was accidently ( i hope ) healing themselve for whatever reason maybe they tryed to heal the BLM but since he was down system targets the character. So what happens i die after me the dancer and healer.

yes we just wiped on the first pull because someone was not reading the chat and had to Pull the next grp. Neccessary ? no i had a reason. Thats all i am saying most of the time people have a reason for a slow playstyle even if the reason is comfort. Just talk and listen. If i trust my healer i have 0 problems to sprint through the dungeon and kill everything.

on the flipside if a player pull one grp then go afk for 2 minutes pull the next and goes afk again then yes its litterally not respecting time unless theres a comment on the chat.