Nerf AST

[Mawlzy]

Mkay I'm gonna take back some of what I said recently. The descriptions of the changes seem (as usual) based on the 5v5 mode, but to me the explanations seem logical within that context.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/pvp/#pvpaction

[Mawlzy]

Ah but here's the problem: "An issue when playing as astrologian wherein the PvP action Macrocosmos would erroneously change to Microcosmos when the player was granted Macrocosmos by a party member."

Is a well-known maid going to descend on her broomstick to the FL champ de bataille leading a quad-AST premade?

[Valence]

Pretty sizable nerfs to AST in the new patch notes!

They're all but sizeable and do only affect meaningless parts of its kit.
- Macrocosmos only nerfs the damage a little and the base healing (6k down to 5k, really?), but you can still deny a full team wide burst with it because the part that actually matters is the 25% of damage wide.
- 5s Heavy on Gravity was wild, but 3s is still applied to a 8y radius, which is thrice the size of a standard 5y circle by the way. Let this sink in a little, a 5y circle is equal to 38% of the surface of a 8y circle.
- Epicycle has a slight nerf on the shield, but the AST can still blink freely like a RPR. Why it needs a barrier on top of it I don't even know.
- Lord and Lady still apply their 10% effect. Why they need damage and healing on top of it I don't even know. Imagine a single solo buff card that also does a 20y AoE heal of same potency than an aspected benefic.

I'm calling it right now, this is going to change literally nothing for the job. The problem is the design behind which stacks every best tool in the game into the same job: teleport? check. Best instant cast solo heal? check. Best room wide heals? check. Best crowd control? AoE stun on LB, check, only inferior to WhM's, and 8y AoE Heavy, check.

[Mawlzy]

They're all but sizeable and do only affect meaningless parts of its kit.
- Macrocosmos only nerfs the damage a little and the base healing (6k down to 5k, really?), but you can still deny a full team wide burst with it because the part that actually matters is the 25% of damage wide.
- 5s Heavy on Gravity was wild, but 3s is still applied to a 8y radius, which is thrice the size of a standard 5y circle by the way. Let this sink in a little, a 5y circle is equal to 38% of the surface of a 8y circle.
- Epicycle has a slight nerf on the shield, but the AST can still blink freely like a RPR. Why it needs a barrier on top of it I don't even know.
- Lord and Lady still apply their 10% effect. Why they need damage and healing on top of it I don't even know. Imagine a single solo buff card that also does a 20y AoE heal of same potency than an aspected benefic.

I'm calling it right now, this is going to change literally nothing for the job. The problem is the design behind which stacks every best tool in the game into the same job: teleport? check. Best instant cast solo heal? check. Best room wide heals? check. Best crowd control? AoE stun on LB, check, only inferior to WhM's, and 8y AoE Heavy, check.

Mkay, hadn't thought of that, but when comparing AoEs I guess area is the relevant variable. And yes, it does seem to do everything. Going to gather data.

[Valence]

Like even if you decrease it down to 6y radius, this is still 40% bigger than a 5y circle. 5y is 69% of the surface of a 6y circle. I'm not sure people realize how geometrically quick this scales especially in pvp.

[Blueyes]

I think certain large AoE attacks like Gravity II should be given the Sky Shatter treatment, meaning only those within the inner circle receive the full effect. Players beyond the inner 4y receive half damage and aren't affected with Heavy.

[AnotherPerson]

Now I've been playing AST more, it's quite stacked. 5s Gravity that instantly refreshed the full duration was incredibly strong and definitely needed to go or get adjusted. The heavy duration reduction on dualcast Gravity from 5s to 3s and heavy duration on Gravity from 3s to 2s is a good nerf. I was expecting more of a LoS nerf for Lord of Crowns and Macrocosmos damage since the coverage of AST can be quite strong, but I guess that wouldn't be work as well for certain FL specific maps. The potency nerfs are pretty considerable due to how AST layers buffs/debuffs together, which I suspect is why AST is deceptively strong atm. It's a good nerf to address both CC and FL in its damage department while maintaining the uniqueness of AST intact.

If it gets nerfed any more, it wouldn't feel like much has changed between 6.1 AST and 7.1 AST other than the reduction of card effects, an added dash, and cc nerfs. You'd have to play it really well to get any mileage with RNG attached otherwise. I think it's still a solid job atm, but I'll still have to play it to see how it holds up with the adjustments in other jobs cooldowns and potencies.

PLD and RDM really needed those nerfs, their personal sustain was really strong for the cc/dps they dish out.
Personally, I don't think Viper's problem is fixed even with potency buffs, because the core problem isn't just the potencies alone, but the toolkit's design on certain skills (like Hardened Scales still locking you in place). The higher potencies does help alleviate a bit of the issues from the loss of Slither's damage buff, although the lack of instantaneous ranged burst is still a pretty sizeable loss.

[Mawlzy]

Report from Aether. Still no sign of the regulars. Other oddities...

AST is still putting up big numbers, and the eye test suggests it's still the top job. Funny thing is, not that many people are playing it. Is this true on other DCs? Given the potential of AST stacking I suspect we're nowhere near to seeing its potential yet.

Tanks. An endangered species. On multiple occasions I've been the only tank on the entire team. I like a challenge, but this suggests a balance issue.

BRD. Currently the most-played job, putting up big K/A/Dmg numbers.

Ranged vs melee. Both in job frequency and stats, this is currently a ranged meta, and it's not even close.

Based on past experience, my guess is meta evolution will amplify most of these imbalances. I credit the devs with moving many things in the right direction in 7.11, but I can't see the new hit detection ever feeling good.

Anyone finding notable differences on other DCs? Any word from JP?

Thx

[IDontPetLalas]

It's a mixed bag, I see less tanks, I still see a lot of melee. I find that it's a very small breath of fresh air after years of state, robotic stupidity that we had. I much prefer to see a mix of jobs - by the way my comments are directed more towards FL. I would expect a very different experience in CC.

You know, I really doubt that most people enjoy a challenge in PvP, from what I've seen - they don't, at least in FL. Otherwise we wouldn't seen so many conversations about "what's the meta?" "nerf this job", "buff this job" within hours of a patch, and so many people focussed on specific jobs.

For myself, I switch between a couple of jobs, and it's partially towards the jobs that I'm somewhat competent on and those that the party needs, and that I like - however if stands a decent chance of being effective , it can be fun trying to improve on it. On the current healers, for example, I think that's true of all of them.

[Mawlzy]

It's a mixed bag, I see less tanks, I still see a lot of melee. I find that it's a very small breath of fresh air after years of state, robotic stupidity that we had. I much prefer to see a mix of jobs - by the way my comments are directed more towards FL. I would expect a very different experience in CC.

You know, I really doubt that most people enjoy a challenge in PvP, from what I've seen - they don't, at least in FL. Otherwise we wouldn't seen so many conversations about "what's the meta?" "nerf this job", "buff this job" within hours of a patch, and so many people focussed on specific jobs.

For myself, I switch between a couple of jobs, and it's partially towards the jobs that I'm somewhat competent on and those that the party needs, and that I like - however if stands a decent chance of being effective , it can be fun trying to improve on it. On the current healers, for example, I think that's true of all of them.

Yeah that's fair, guess it depends on what one means by a "challenge." On the one hand, the challenge for some players seems to be getting their daily XP by pressing as few buttons as possible, while on the other it's finding the simplest stack that maximizes win-rate.

Since I'm in neither camp, my challenge is mostly figuring out how to play jobs I like, whether they're off-meta or otherwise.