Job identity, simplification and balance in general

[ovIm]

As much as I am unhappy with several job changes in DT, I think it's a bit unfair to jump the gun and start immediately accusing devs and suits of dishonesty. Yes, PR talk is mostly bull, however the devs are several patches ahead of us. These job changes have probably been decided a while ago. If YoshiP is truthful, and he only realised this recently, then we will have months until we see any noticeable change in job design. It's just easier to not have that hope / assume malice in the first place.

Regardless, even if the decisions have been made a while ago, they can still backtrack or address some things based on how much backlash they get. The more backlash, the more likely it'll be moved up in the priority list.

Usually I would agree with you, but consider this - Yoshi-P is the producer of this game, the one that is supposed to have the vision and who controls what goes. If the interview I linked earlier was the information he himself has provided as of june of this year, then that means this should have been the intention for longer. And even if it was not, 5 months is a lot of time, more than enough to adjust potencies and buff stack amount. They were able to adjust things from Viper because of 3 weeks worth of feedback from the players. So clearly, they can be a bit quicker with adjustments for jobs.

I've given the devs the benefit of the doubt for years now, and after a while, my own well of goodwill has run dry, unfortunately.

[Mikey_R]

Usually I would agree with you, but consider this - Yoshi-P is the producer of this game, the one that is supposed to have the vision and who controls what goes. If the interview I linked earlier was the information he himself has provided as of june of this year, then that means this should have been the intention for longer. And even if it was not, 5 months is a lot of time, more than enough to adjust potencies and buff stack amount. They were able to adjust things from Viper because of 3 weeks worth of feedback from the players. So clearly, they can be a bit quicker with adjustments for jobs.

I've given the devs the benefit of the doubt for years now, and after a while, my own well of goodwill has run dry, unfortunately.

The interview specifically stated that the more major changes were coming in 7.2 and onwards. The changes to Viper and Monk (among other jobs) are just knee jerk reactions that shouldn't have happened, but they are also quick changes so it isn't fair to point at those and say, look, they didn't do what they claimed they would.

Changing jobs more drastically takes time, they have likely already started with the 7.2 changes, so, like it or not, you will have to wait.

You also have to remember they take feedback from many many places. What do the JP forums say? How about the other languages? Are there other sites that other languages use that are similar to Reddit? Youtube? How about feedback from the ingame systems? Just because the forums specifically do not like a certain change, doesn't change the fact they might have had a massive amount of feedback to the contrary.

[Mikey_R]

You're acting like player feedback has never changed anything before, and player backlash has never reverted changes before. Does it happen all the time? Certainly not, but it's non-zero. Scholar has Aetherflow because of player backlash at it's removal.

Scholar never lost Aetherflow, they did lose Energy Drain though, which was quickly given back.

[jonimated]

Scholar never lost Aetherflow, they did lose Energy Drain though, which was quickly given back.

Right that's what it was. My bad.

[ovIm]

The interview specifically stated that the more major changes were coming in 7.2 and onwards. The changes to Viper and Monk (among other jobs) are just knee jerk reactions that shouldn't have happened, but they are also quick changes so it isn't fair to point at those and say, look, they didn't do what they claimed they would.

Changing jobs more drastically takes time, they have likely already started with the 7.2 changes, so, like it or not, you will have to wait.

You also have to remember they take feedback from many many places. What do the JP forums say? How about the other languages? Are there other sites that other languages use that are similar to Reddit? Youtube? How about feedback from the ingame systems? Just because the forums specifically do not like a certain change, doesn't change the fact they might have had a massive amount of feedback to the contrary.

yeah wait a second, that is not what my post is about at all. We are not talking about possible reworks for classes, that is a different topic altogether which does take time, which I agree.

What I am saying is - if Yoshi-P tells media outlets, just weeks before DT release, that he and CS3 believe that job simplification went too far, and now half a year later CS3 are still simplifying jobs, then something does not add up.

[BabyYoda]

yeah wait a second, that is not what my post is about at all. We are not talking about possible reworks for classes, that is a different topic altogether which does take time, which I agree.

What I am saying is - if Yoshi-P tells media outlets, just weeks before DT release, that he and CS3 believe that job simplification went too far, and now half a year later CS3 are still simplifying jobs, then something does not add up.

I remember in 5.2 they rework Ninja ninjitsu system, and it didn't require wasting 2.5 years to see meaningful changes.

We are in a point where we know nothing about next changes and the only thing we have is hope,
Which is not helping with 7.1 changes

[Keichi]

Scholar never lost Aetherflow, they did lose Energy Drain though, which was quickly given back.

Better example:
Star cross has reach now.
Ice Paradox came back.

[Schan]

I've given the devs the benefit of the doubt for years now, and after a while, my own well of goodwill has run dry, unfortunately.

I don't blame you. People have different levels of goodwill and SE keeps messing up. Quite a few people are running out of goodwill by now.

I will be here complaining about job design but I am also aware that:
A) their job isn't easy
B) they're the dev group most at risk of taking the brunt of the community's outrage.