MNK changes don't feel good to play

[SomeGuy22]

It’s obvious that they ‘wanted’ to make Monk viable for Frontline and I wish I could like that mode, but at the end of the day 24x3 pile up is just a CC and AoE spam and personal play skill is lost in the cartoon punch cloud (my personal opinion)

The worst part is that you already could be effective as a MNK in frontlines by playing it as a highly mobile assassin of high BH targets first and brawler second. Sure you'd most likely not top the leaderboards in damage dealt, but turning the giggling BH5 AST on autopilot into a sitting duck in the middle of your alliance also helped your team turn the tides. Not to mention being high-risk/reward, and satisfying to land!

Now, with the missing thunderclap charge and the infuriating delay on your knockback pretty much forcing you to

pee in the circles the Dark Knights make like everyone else

, I'm very worried that their PvE design philosophy of making the jobs kinda effective in kinda the same way is starting to bleed into PvP as well. These changes really don't feel like they're from the same devs who made the EW PvP kits, man...

[MeleeMonk]

Going to agree and say I'm not entirely happy with recent MNK changes in PvP. My biggest gripe is with ranged monks; those who choose to stay with the group on the back lines and spam the ranged attack. Always easy to spot them at the end on the leaderboard with multiple kills, 0-1 deaths and many assists. A true melee monk is less likely to match their kills and assists, and will definitely have a few deaths, or more. As melee, we have to enter the enemy group and we are first target all thanks to tab button and default keybind for targeting. It's just how melee goes, except for the ranged monk who for the life of me I don't know why they didn't just roll a MCH or BLM.

To add to this, the monk shouldn't be as feared as it used to be but with ranged monk high stats, it makes us priority target when actually you should be finding the ranged monks and taking them out.

My other gripe is diminishing returns. Remember, such a thing existed in previous FF games?! Bring them into PvP, or at least FL. Melee get murdered if 10+ enemies have piled down onto them. Why is there a need to allow CC to rotate continuously on us? Can we not have a tiny chance of escape occasionally by the implementation of diminishing returns? With current dynamics, we are 100% screwed once locked into a CC roulette. And then the final insult (and gripe)...... the MCH! If by some miracle (and bad enemy players) you've managed to put up your guard (which is pretty crap) and then start to get away - think again! MCH numbers are swelling in FL and they are there waiting to LB your sorry ass. Lately, there's always at least two waiting to take out the monk - one whilst your guard is up to reduce your health, and the other to put a bullet in your head just as you thought you escaped....... but then remember their LB is 50y!!!

::dead::

[Divinemights]

Going to agree and say I'm not entirely happy with recent MNK changes in PvP. My biggest gripe is with ranged monks; those who choose to stay with the group on the back lines and spam the ranged attack. Always easy to spot them at the end on the leaderboard with multiple kills, 0-1 deaths and many assists. A true melee monk is less likely to match their kills and assists, and will definitely have a few deaths, or more. As melee, we have to enter the enemy group and we are first target all thanks to tab button and default keybind for targeting. It's just how melee goes, except for the ranged monk who for the life of me I don't know why they didn't just roll a MCH or BLM.

It is the playstyle and it has nothing to do with Monk's design.
I refers this playstyle as "Poachers" myself because they primary hide behind teammates, spam AOEs, kill steal, and run away on fight sight their team about to losing.
Current Monk just offers these Poachers one more option that is all.
If there is no Monk, you will find these people playing Machinest or Ninja

[MeleeMonk]

It is the playstyle and it has nothing to do with Monk's design.
I refers this playstyle as "Poachers" myself because they primary hide behind teammates, spam AOEs, kill steal, and run away on fight sight their team about to losing.
Current Monk just offers these Poachers one more option that is all.
If there is no Monk, you will find these people playing Machinest or Ninja

I'm not disagreeing with you, but MNK should not be given any tools to play ranged and come out with decent kills and assists. It's a heavy melee class and should be restored as such.

[gidsonBrand]

If it's any consolation, the 15 second reduction on Meteodrive has made a huge difference in custom games. If a match goes to time, you basically get 5 free kills per game -- even more if you have a bard on your team. The knockback still exists as Wind's Reply, I think, but it is a nerfed version.

Gonna play some ranked/custom games before I cement my opinion tho.

[Phylecia]

If it's any consolation, the 15 second reduction on Meteodrive has made a huge difference in custom games. If a match goes to time, you basically get 5 free kills per game -- even more if you have a bard on your team. The knockback still exists as Wind's Reply, I think, but it is a nerfed version.

Gonna play some ranked/custom games before I cement my opinion tho.

You do have the shove, but my issue is it's sometimes VERY delayed. On Volcanic map I literally had a guy running straight at me, so I was button mashing the hell out of it, so that the second he was within range, he'd go backwards. Here's what happened:

My attack goes off, I see the wind gust animation thing, he's jumping in, and lands right on me (like our shoulders are touching) shove goes off and he goes flying to my right off to the side--completely not at all how I was aiming or going for it.

I'd say stun is like aiming the shot, then you take the shot; no stun is like resting the pool stick randomly on the table and just taking a jab and hoping it works out lol

I do like the 15 seconds off of Phantom Rush, however; in my gameplay last night I actually noticed more times people living from it, likely because they have more HP, but I'd also say I'm still learning to play with the new lag system they added in to be fair.

[OnyxBlackheart]

You do have the shove, but my issue is it's sometimes VERY delayed. On Volcanic map I literally had a guy running straight at me, so I was button mashing the hell out of it, so that the second he was within range, he'd go backwards. Here's what happened:

My attack goes off, I see the wind gust animation thing, he's jumping in, and lands right on me (like our shoulders are touching) shove goes off and he goes flying to my right off to the side--completely not at all how I was aiming or going for it.

I'd say stun is like aiming the shot, then you take the shot; no stun is like resting the pool stick randomly on the table and just taking a jab and hoping it works out lol

I do like the 15 seconds off of Phantom Rush, however; in my gameplay last night I actually noticed more times people living from it, likely because they have more HP, but I'd also say I'm still learning to play with the new lag system they added in to be fair.

A lot of this has to do with the shitty new hit detection. It mainly effects melee moreso than ranged imo but your Wind's Reply example... The dmg and effect (ie the KB) doesn't go out until the animation is done. So the person had that time to land from their jump/dash then your animation most likely finished thus the KB came out.

It's the same with people surviving Phantom Rush, I don't believe it's because people have higher HP but because they can now heal in between your burst. Example, before hit detection change you would Rising Phoenix > Enlighten > Rising Phoenix + Thunderclap > Phantom Rush. You were rewarded for your build up with high burst instantly (intentionally leaving out the meteodrive burst). People did not have time to heal. Now doing that, since Phantom Rush dmg doesn't come out til the end of the long animation, they have a nice amount of time to heal. We no longer have the stun so we can't stop that either nor use it for filler dmg during burst.

[Phylecia]

The monk just has random tools that don’t work together; they literally contradict each other.
I feel like they should at least have Flint's Reply advance the combo forward or something, or like the combo could build up the damage of the fireball with stacks or something like that. The tools just don’t work together in any sort of synergy way at all.

I think that's ultimately what has me the most frustrated is the kit is just random stuff that doesn't go together--your legs are running opposite ways and you're just doing the splits (HARD) on the pavement.

You're either being a low damaging turret in the backline or you're trying to build up that combo for a nerf to all hell phantom rush; all while being, right now, the squishiest out of all the melee jobs. They’re night and day to each other and do not work together.


It would have been kewl to fix actual job issues like:
-Can Earth's Reply instead-

of that cheese 25% AoE damage, instead, be like a 4sec 25% compounded damage Absorb bubble on the Monk? That WOULD make the reply feel more Earthy!
Or have the 8sec timer start down when you start taking the damage
Or instead, it auto trigger when it drops like other class auras (PLD has this)

tl;dr
Just put Monk back, fix Earth's reply, and maybe have a gentle tweak (GENTLE!) to Monk health & potency numbers and omg I'd love that class even more than I did in all the version 6.x patches because nothing was wrong with it at all beyond Earth reply imo.

Shouldn't be making Monk good for Frontline, Frontline should be made good for monk. More broadly fix the mode to work with the classes, not break the classes to make the mode work.

Cutting myself off now, give others a chance to speak, but I’m just so butt-hurt I was waiting months and excited and literally got a busted damaged product delivered is how I feel...

[Eastwall]

If it's any consolation, the 15 second reduction on Meteodrive has made a huge difference in custom games. If a match goes to time, you basically get 5 free kills per game -- even more if you have a bard on your team. The knockback still exists as Wind's Reply, I think, but it is a nerfed version.

Gonna play some ranked/custom games before I cement my opinion tho.

Yeah, the pressure point can no longer be triggered by meteodrive... So monk lb is basically a stun that can't be purified, and hopefully youe team can utilize it, lol

[Esmoire]

For what it's worth, the Phantom Rush does pair with Meteodrive. You can start the LB before the damage snapshot of the PR, so you can negate the guard.

All in all it's definitely more a teamwork LB which IMO is healthier for the game. I don't think the extremes of monk was good, along with some of the other potential burst combos on a few other jobs. I just wish we didn't lose a charge of Thunderclap or the stun in the process. IMO taking away both in the same update was a bad call. Give me another TC for that shield and stickiness or give me the SSS for the setup potential. Losing both took out the melee bully aspect of the job.