7.1 - Jobs, meet sandpaper

[Rehayem]

I'm still surprised people really believe 8.0 changes will do anything? I think it's pretty clear jobs will be worse in the next expac.

[Asari5]

i guess im gonna change my main job in the forum. no more dragoon... maybe monk?

[Alice9]

They really are just going to ignore all that viper feedback huh?

[Hazama999]

While I don't really play ninja that often, and I'm certainly not going to go out and say that skills having downsides is "peak" game design or anything like that... yes, I have to agree: I do actually miss the rough edges. Plainly put, X or Y skill having some sort of caveat or downside does in fact force you to think more about when and where to use it. Beyond that, they also added much-needed flavor to the job. Do you guys remember how Holmgang used to bind your target and YOU in place? Gonna sound crazy to some but I loved that stuff. Could you misuse it and screw yourself over? Absolutely, but the fact that it evoked imagery of your warrior locking themselves and their target in a mini-duel of sorts was just too dope. Now it's just...... well, you halt the target's movement but that's just about it. The issue, from what I can tell, is that ultimately this came to be seen as an inconvenience rather than a flavorful snag that you had to work around.

Shame, really.

/shrug

[CuteBucket]

I think these changes also go to show that job changes aren't about player feedback much if at all. All I see with many of these changes is stuff going against player feedback. Is any of this stuff casual players really were asking for?

I will admit that I am only one person who can only see and read so much of the conversation happening about this game online at any given moment. But whether here on these forums, in game talking to people, or on FFXIV discussion areas like Reddit or various Discord communities, I cannot think of a single time I have ever heard any complaints about the highlighted job mechanics. Like I never encountered a dragoon who had a hard time with Nastrond, or a Summoner that was commonly messing up their Ifrit combo, or a Ninja that hated Ten Chi Jin. I did hear people complain about Black Mage Leylines over the years, I suppose, but that group seemed happy with the "pick up and move your leylines" thing. Otherwise I've seen nothing but Black Mages angry about DT changes...

That's what keeps baffling me about all this: who are these changes for? I can only assume at this point it's for the dev team themselves for whatever reason.

(but actual thank you for giving PLD its gap closer before lvl 70, that really drove me insane. All tanks should have it at lvl 50 imo, but it's a start.)

[KillaKilala]

It's not actually.

Care to explain why? People who are complaining about ninja changes clearly have never played ninja, at least not in the raid environment. Yes it is hard to stand still during TCJ and it was too punishing. Even the top ninja players complained about this. Devs removed an annoying mechanic that should’ve never existed and you act like it’s the end of the world, the job is too easy now and lost all its identity… No, it still has ten chi jin combos, it still requires you to press 49 buttons per minute… how is that easier or less unique? Look I want game to be harder, I even made a thread about this, but the old TCJ really was a bad mechanic, too easy to break and too punishing, it even made me stop playing ninja even though I love this job.

[ovIm]

Care to explain why?

I can try to explain, though it is more likely my own perspective and possibly not valid for other players. Also, I have retired from raiding and now mostly play PVP and the occasional dungeon, just to keep that in mind. That being said:

Having the limitation on TCJ was a form of skill expression. Knowing when you had to stand still to execute your abilities showed some knowledge about the fight and job. Sure it was frustrating when you accidentally moved, but when you did not and executed TCJ perfectly, it actually felt good. Like me improving as a player good. Like if I had just solved a puzzle good. Does that make sense?

Devs removed an annoying mechanic that should’ve never existed and you act like it’s the end of the world

Because that is all the devs do, remove mechanics and not substitute them with other mechanics, making classes feel more watered down with each iteration. Viper was not even allowed a month of having some resemblance of gameplay mechanics before that was neutered, and that was a super new job.

[KillaKilala]

I can try to explain, though it is more likely my own perspective and possibly not valid for other players. Also, I have retired from raiding and now mostly play PVP and the occasional dungeon, just to keep that in mind. That being said:

Having the limitation on TCJ was a form of skill expression. Knowing when you had to stand still to execute your abilities showed some knowledge about the fight and job. Sure it was frustrating when you accidentally moved, but when you did not and executed TCJ perfectly, it actually felt good. Like me improving as a player good. Like if I had just solved a puzzle good. Does that make sense?




Because that is all the devs do, remove mechanics and not substitute them with other mechanics, making classes feel more watered down with each iteration. Viper was not even allowed a month of having some resemblance of gameplay mechanics before that was neutered, and that was a super new job.

I mean I completely agree with your philosophy, but this specific mechanic was actually bad. As I said it was too easy to break, it’s a very fast job and it’s very easy to misclick. The punishment is not just a slight dps loss, but it also misaligns and breaks your whole rotation.

[Supersnow845]

I mean I completely agree with your philosophy, but this specific mechanic was actually bad. As I said it was too easy to break, it’s a very fast job and it’s very easy to misclick. The punishment is not just a slight dps loss, but it also misaligns and breaks your whole rotation.

And that’s why punishment for a high damage mechanic is good

If punishment is only attached to failure of weak secondary and tertiary skills you functionally don’t have punishment

[kiotsukete]

I’m not sure if the NIN TCJ change is necessarily about making the job easier (though it definitely does). Another reason might be the current emphasis on DDR (Dodge Dodge Repetition) mechanics.

I don’t do savage, but just in normal content it’s so annoying to have TCJ fail during extended periods of forced dodging. For example, 2nd boss of the lv97 dungeon or Honey B alarm pheromones. You either risk getting hit standing still trying to pull off TCJ, dodge and have TCJ fail, or hold TCJ until the DDR sequence is over which can throw off your burst timers.

Will have to try once servers are back up, but I think accurately hitting TCJ while dodging might be a fun challenge.