We did it! Amazing DRK changes!

[inhaledcorn]

People complain about job homogenization then turn around and celebrate the tanks being made even more similar. Hilarious.

There's a difference between "homogenization" and "uniqueness for the sake of being unique". If a job being unique is also giving it unique problems, then the solution is to make it more similar to its contemporaries. If PLD, WAR, and GNB don't have the problems that DRK has because DRK is "unique", then some of that uniqueness should be sacrificed for the sake of function. I mean, you can chop off your leg and call yourself unique, but you just make things much harder for yourself.

[Supersnow845]

There's a difference between "homogenization" and "uniqueness for the sake of being unique". If a job being unique is also giving it unique problems, then the solution is to make it more similar to its contemporaries. If PLD, WAR, and GNB don't have the problems that DRK has because DRK is "unique", then some of that uniqueness should be sacrificed for the sake of function. I mean, you can chop off your leg and call yourself unique, but you just make things much harder for yourself.

I mean DRK is/was uniquely tanky against magical based attacks. It was the only tank that could take TOP P6 damage without any outside influence during 6.x and it retains on average being able to take large hits better than the other 3 tanks. Is that not a unique point of advantage that DRK has. Why is it “uniquely” bad because it’s bad in dungeons. I mean don’t people defend WAR’s balance because it’s advantage is strongest in dungeons

[CidHeiral]

If a job being unique is also giving it unique problems, then the solution is to make it more similar to its contemporaries. If PLD, WAR, and GNB don't have the problems that DRK has because DRK is "unique", then some of that uniqueness should be sacrificed for the sake of function.

Unique jobs will by definition all have "unique problems" because they will have strengths and weaknesses. If you don't want jobs to have any weaknesses then you can't also complain about homogenization. The two positions are incompatible.

To be clear, people can be on whatever side of the issue they want, I don't care. It's the contradiction of people with one foot on both sides that I found humorous.

[Lyth]

Unique jobs will by definition all have "unique problems" because they will have strengths and weaknesses. If you don't want jobs to have any weaknesses then you can't also complain about homogenization.

If you want jobs to have unique strengths and weaknesses, that needs to be the design philosophy across the board. Shake it Off is a flat shield effect using 15-21% max HP, works on all damage types, has a 300 potency heal and a 100 potency regen effect for 15 seconds. The break even point for %DR effects like Heart of Light and Dark Missionary is when the total incoming damage across all hits exceeds 150-210% max HP for magical damage, and 300-410% max HP for physical damage, after all other raidwide mitigation effects have been considered. And that's after putting pressure on the design team to change it for years.

Are you able to explain the trade-off here? Because it seems to me that one job is just consistently better than the others defensively. It gets even worse when you look at Holmgang, which is the best invuln with no downside. It always seems that the homogenization argument gets trotted out whenever people want to defend their advantages over others. Show me that players are willing to take on unique drawbacks for all those advantages, and then we'll talk about job identity.

[Shurrikhan]

If you want jobs to have unique strengths and weaknesses, that needs to be the design philosophy across the board. Shake it Off is a flat shield effect using 15-21% max HP, works on all damage types, has a 300 potency heal and a 100 potency regen effect for 15 seconds. The break even point for %DR effects like Heart of Light and Dark Missionary is when the total incoming damage across all hits exceeds 150-210% max HP for magical damage, and 300-410% max HP for physical damage, after all other raidwide mitigation effects have been considered. And that's after putting pressure on the design team to change it for years.

Well, surely, it's just that Warrior, in turn for superior raid mitigation (and an invuln that's often the best in practice in any meaningful content), lacks damage, control over their output dynamics, specific utility, and/or personal sustain. ...Right?

[CidHeiral]

If you want jobs to have unique strengths and weaknesses, that needs to be the design philosophy across the board.

I agree and I hope that comes to pass.

[Carighan]

If you want jobs to have unique strengths and weaknesses, that needs to be the design philosophy across the board.

Of course. Everyone needs unique strenghts, which assuming they're actually unique automatically creates unique weaknesses, too. It's then up to the content designers to not overly prod only at one weakness and one strength, but assuming a roughly even spread of content, things balance out.

Source: Just about every RPG, ever. :P