7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

[ovIm]

There's also his interview with that Italian site.

"That's why we'd like to take a step back and bring things back to how they were before" is the most interesting part. That could mean a lot of things depending on what time period he means by "before" and to what extent.

huh, that is interesting, thank you for sharing! Does go in line with that other interview, though yes, we would have to wait and see how they plan on doing these things.

[AvoSturmfaust]

I actually really enjoy the Dragoon Changes.

Dragon Sight was the biggest pain in the ass as controller player and the removal was the best ever happend.
Nasrond, thats a 50:50 thing, i mean on one side you have like 4 Buttoninputs in a 2 min cyclus less, while you are able to get your burst even quicker out, iirc right now a dragoon only needs 5 gcds with good ping to get the full ogcds burst out which is great for certain situations while you still have the same potency overall then before.

[HeavenlyArmed]

I actually really enjoy the Dragoon Changes.

Dragon Sight was the biggest pain in the ass as controller player and the removal was the best ever happend.
Nasrond, thats a 50:50 thing, i mean on one side you have like 4 Buttoninputs in a 2 min cyclus less, while you are able to get your burst even quicker out, iirc right now a dragoon only needs 5 gcds with good ping to get the full ogcds burst out which is great for certain situations while you still have the same potency overall then before.

Oh yeah, I may be in a minority on this one but I do not mourn the loss of Dragon Sight in 7.0 in the slightest. Janky macros being my most reliable way to use a skill as a controller player was absurd and I'm glad I no longer have to deal with it. It really just is the Nastrond changes in 7.1 that I have a problem with. Sure it's a good thing to have some space to use something like Feint or True North in a burst window at 100, but opening that same amount of space in lower levels and taking away what was a genuinely fun button to press to do it, well, it was bad enough that I started this thread. There were just buttons that deserved it more that wouldn't hurt the fun of doing stuff like old Ultimates so significantly.

[CidHeiral]

I never had any issues with Dragon Sight but I would be happy to sacrifice it if that meant we got the rest of pre-Dawntrail DRG back.

[Aco505]

Since they removed the tether, Dragon Sight just wasn't the same. If the tether was brought back though...

[HikariKurosawa]

There were just buttons that deserved it more that wouldn't hurt the fun of doing stuff like old Ultimates so significantly.

Yeah I mean, if they removed life surge I'd be fine with it. I don't think mirage dive should ever be removed though. I think there is also a lot more interesting stuff they can add to dragoon's burst window than simply having 3 nastronds though.

Removing life surge, and adding my suggestion of high jump + mirage dive during lotd leading to an upgraded high jump and a red mirage dive is probably the best case scenario. More mirage diving, more blue/red theme, more jumping, more ogcd, and no additional buttons since it would be the same keybinds as high jump and mirage dive.

Since I made the suggestion everyone is going to be contrarian about it, but it really is a good suggestion.

To further expand on my suggestion, I think they should move acquisition of scales to high jump and the new jump and make it so that we can do raiden thrust and draconian fury in our opener. Prioritize animation upgrades and consistency over automatic mechanics that don't align naturally. This would mean we would always have a WWT for our burst windows and always have one every other high jump that happens out of burst. I know that this suggestion removes thinking from the job, but it also makes the job flow much more consistently and organically. I don't think it is a bad thing for a job to be designed in a way that just works, personally I view it as good and satisfying design. Plus they could buff the potency of WWT since it would happen less frequently, giving us stronger burst windows.

Call it "boost jump" as a throwback to cid highwind's limit break.

[HeavenlyArmed]

Yeah I mean, if they removed life surge I'd be fine with it. I don't think mirage dive should ever be removed though. I think there is also a lot more interesting stuff they can add to dragoon's burst window than simply having 3 nastronds though.

Removing life surge, and adding my suggestion of high jump + mirage dive during lotd leading to an upgraded high jump and a red mirage dive is probably the best case scenario. More mirage diving, more blue/red theme, more jumping, more ogcd, and no additional buttons since it would be the same keybinds as high jump and mirage dive.

Since I made the suggestion everyone is going to be contrarian about it, but it really is a good suggestion.

To further expand on my suggestion, I think they should move acquisition of scales to high jump and the new jump and make it so that we can do raiden thrust and draconian fury in our opener. Prioritize animation upgrades and consistency over automatic mechanics that don't align naturally. This would mean we would always have a WWT for our burst windows and always have one every other high jump that happens out of burst. I know that this suggestion removes thinking from the job, but it also makes the job flow much more consistently and organically. I don't think it is a bad thing for a job to be designed in a way that just works, personally I view it as good and satisfying design. Plus they could buff the potency of WWT since it would happen less frequently, giving us stronger burst windows.

Call it "boost jump" as a throwback to cid highwind's limit break.

Since this is actually a real suggestion I won't ignore you on this one. Personally I prefer the idea of adding scales to something rather than moving them from being generated by one skill to another. As the old meme says, "por que no los dos"? Especially because I feel like that would help give a feeling of different parts of our toolkit all tying back into each other. But the idea of scales being generated by something else in some way is one I do like. As for the extra jump idea I think for 8.0 that does sound like an idea worth considering. The problem is the odds of them introducing new skills mid-expansion is next to nothing, and most of us would like the extra buttons to press in the next possible patch, not two years down the line. But when they do, assuming the 8.0 reworks don't go in an entirely different direction, that's one idea I see some potential in.

[HikariKurosawa]

Since this is actually a real suggestion I won't ignore you on this one. Personally I prefer the idea of adding scales to something rather than moving them from being generated by one skill to another. As the old meme says, "por que no los dos"? Especially because I feel like that would help give a feeling of different parts of our toolkit all tying back into each other. But the idea of scales being generated by something else in some way is one I do like. As for the extra jump idea I think for 8.0 that does sound like an idea worth considering. The problem is the odds of them introducing new skills mid-expansion is next to nothing, and most of us would like the extra buttons to press in the next possible patch, not two years down the line. But when they do, assuming the 8.0 reworks don't go in an entirely different direction, that's one idea I see some potential in.

I think it would be good for them to add the extra jump and mirage dive outside of a new expansion for the specific reason of having it introduced at a lower level, like 70 so it's present in all ultimate content. This leaves them freedom for more unique abilities in the 8.0 patch, since a reskinned jump + mirage dive isn't the most exciting addition for a new expansion. Especially if they remove life surge or rework it into an actual defensive ability.

For expansion ability ideas, I'm not even sure what they could do. The jobs are becoming very close to full(I said bloated but I don't really think that's true. It's not over the limit, just close to the limit). Pruning is necessary but there isn't even much to prune other than life surge. Maybe an oGCD followup ability for nastrond and an animation/potency upgrade to sonic thrust?

Then our 8.0 burst window oGCDs would be: High Jump, Mirage Dive, Boost Jump, Red Dive, Nastrond, Nastrond followup, Wyrmwind Thrust, Dragonfire Dive, Rise of the Dragon, Stardiver, Starcross.

Level 70 burst window would be: High Jump, Mirage Dive, Boost Jump, Red Dive, Nastrond, Dragonfire Dive. I think this is a good amount of buttons for the first two ultimates and it only gets better for the following ultimates.

[HikariKurosawa]

Since leveling the job a bit and doing some of the dawntrail dungeon/trial content, it's crazy that people want 3 nastronds back. I do think they should remove life surge and add my suggestion, but yeah this job has way too much going on in burst.

The opinions and preferences of veteran players are so out of touch with reality that it's crazy. Given enough practice, everything becomes normal. Should this level of execution be the norm in a video game? No way in hell. You're pushing away new players. It's discouraging and disengagingly overwhelming to approach current job design, and it was even more complicated and busy in endwalker.

In 8.0, I really hope they make serious efforts toward simplification and streamlined job design. It's gone too far, and the people who have stuck around with the game the entire time have no clue what it really feels like. It's all just muscle memory for you after all.

[Carighan]

Since leveling the job a bit and doing some of the dawntrail dungeon/trial content, it's crazy that people want 3 nastronds back. I do think they should remove life surge and add my suggestion, but yeah this job has way too much going on in burst.

The opinions and preferences of veteran players are so out of touch with reality that it's crazy. Given enough practice, everything becomes normal. Should this level of execution be the norm in a video game? No way in hell. You're pushing away new players. It's discouraging and disengagingly overwhelming to approach current job design, and it was even more complicated and busy in endwalker.

In 8.0, I really hope they make serious efforts toward simplification and streamlined job design. It's gone too far, and the people who have stuck around with the game the entire time have no clue what it really feels like. It's all just muscle memory for you after all.

Having played around it with a bit now, I also don't really see a downside.

I don't like the current Dragoon design. At all. But 3 Nastrond -> 1 Nastrond seems positive, tbh. There's no need for the extra-RSI of pressing Nastrond 3 times, mentally you're not doing much more than going through rote button motions anyways. Might as well cut that down, give your hands a better time, and have exactly as 0 brain engagement as before.

Does Dragoon need a rework? For sure. But this change doesn't hurt it. There's nothing left to hurt anyways. :P