7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

[HikariKurosawa]

Calling people crybabies for having a different opinion isn't implying their opinion is invalid? Saying someone's thread must be satire because you disagree isn't stating their opinion is invalid? Saying that it's weird people think their perspective matters isn't invalidating their opinion? Saying you're "glad most of [us] are never going to be involved in making games" isn't invalidating our opinions? You may need to learn how language works instead of spending so much time on the forums.

There is a difference between invalidating my position objectively, and me invalidating your opinion. Everything I said is okay, because I express it as my perspective.

What isn't okay is saying stuff like this "nobody supports the changes" "the changes objectively made the job unfun".

I am expressing my personal opinion, you are trying to pretend that your opinion is the only one happening. I'm okay with your opinion existing, I just think it's ridiculous and cringe.

we are only seeing one person (that being you) immediately becoming upset the moment someone says anything here.

I've never been upset at one point in this thread. Why would I be? The changes they made this patch are incredible. You're acting like someone on the winning side would ever be upset rofl. You're losing, not me.

[Aco505]

Wise are those who go past the cave to avoid interacting with the being within.

[CidHeiral]

My dudes, you're all taking the troll bait hard, and doing so only makes the feedback here more difficult to parse for whoever collects it for the devs.

[HeavenlyArmed]

The other thing is, it's not simple at all the way it is now. It's just well designed.

To get back to the real discussion rather than sticking on your insistence that you're not invalidating people's opinions, let's go back to this. Dragoon may not be simple the way it is now in your opinion, but as I demonstrated in these two comments, it is the most simple it has been since the start of Stormblood.

Going into EW from ShB the job got simpler, between the 2 minute meta and the removal of Mirage Dives from Spineshatter, it was very straightforward to line up Life windows with buffs, and all they really added was charges that forced you to hold spineshatter for 2mins and Wyrmwind, which doesn't require a ton of thought. Then in DT they remove Mirage Dive's interaction entirely, [and] give us basically the same number of buttons to press meaning there is no added complexity.

[C]omplexity may not be exactly measurable, but it's hardly subjective. Having the exact amount of a resource that guarantees that every time buffs come off cooldown you willbe able to do your additional skills *is* less complicated than having too much or too little and needing to adjust to those circumstances to place those additional skills under as many buff windows as possible, and there is no person who will dispute that. And both of those are more complex than there not being a resource to manage, and those additional skills being accessed by pressing a button that has the exact same cooldown timer as the buffs you would be trying to align with, which again, no serious person would dispute. You can argue that Life Surge charges and Wyrmwind do add some complexity, but with Wyrmwind the entire thought process is "oh, my buffs will be back before I get another scale, let me hold this for a couple more seconds," which is not long-term planning, and with Life Surge it just amounts to press it twice under the stronger buffs and once under the weaker ones. Now, maybe some people will actually find that more complicated than needing to manage Gaze stacks to line up LotD and buffs, but I'd be shocked if that was a significant number of people.

[Aco505]

My dudes, you're all taking the troll bait hard, and doing so only makes the feedback here more difficult to parse for whoever collects it for the devs.

To add a couple of points to this. You're trying to argue with someone that thinks that you need plugins to hit all your positionals when doing mechanics; you're cheating if you can do both properly.

Someone that now claims to just be giving his opinion but has shut others' opinions by calling them "noob" or "weak". In fact, the latter was removed from the specific comment because I guess he thought it was too much.

If you have the energy to keep arguing, by all means, but you're gonna require infinite patience.

[HikariKurosawa]

To add a couple of points to this. You're trying to argue with someone that thinks that you need plugins to hit all your positionals when doing mechanics; you're cheating if you can do both properly.

Someone that now claims to just be giving his opinion but has shut others' opinions by calling them "noob" or "weak". In fact, the latter was removed from the specific comment because I guess he thought it was too much.

If you have the energy to keep arguing, by all means, but you're gonna require infinite patience.

Why would anyone argue with me though? Of course you'd need infinite patience to engage in a neverending "argument" lol. It's subjective opinions. The reason I am speaking up is so people can get a sense for where the devs are coming from and probably move on with their lives instead of wasting them complaining about changes that are most likely here to stay.

There is no right and wrong in this entire thread. Everyone is just stating what they enjoy and hoping the devs side with them. Currently the devs side with me, if they sided with you I would just unsubscribe and move on like I have done in the past.

I edited the weak remark out because yes, it was too far and it was not necessary to convey the point I was making.

It's disingenuous to claim I am trolling just because I disagree with you though.

To get back to the real discussion rather than sticking on your insistence that you're not invalidating people's opinions, let's go back to this. Dragoon may not be simple the way it is now in your opinion, but as I demonstrated in these two comments, it is the most simple it has been since the start of Stormblood.

Sure, in one way it is simpler because they removed eye management. As far as button inputs go though, it is more complex than ever. Only pre-7.1 dawntrail had more complex inputs.

[HeavenlyArmed]

To add a couple of points to this. You're trying to argue with someone that thinks that you need plugins to hit all your positionals when doing mechanics; you're cheating if you can do both properly.

Someone that now claims to just be giving his opinion but has shut others' opinions by calling them "noob" or "weak". In fact, the latter was removed from the specific comment because I guess he thought it was too much.

If you have the energy to keep arguing, by all means, but you're gonna require infinite patience.

Ultimately that was why I posted that big list of all his comments, in hopes of demonstrating why he's not worth generally engaging with. It's just too bad that it has derailed the thread away from the main point of "we don't want our buttons being taken away, but if you're going to do it pick buttons that are less fun to press and aren't the entire reason that pre-7.1 Dragoon felt good to play in sub-level-100 content." Still, there is a lot of good feedback in this thread, and while it may be hard to parse it remains true that this is by far the most active a thread in the job design forum has been in quite some time, which I would hope suggests to whoever's collecting the feedback that this is a change a serious number of people take issue with.

[brinn12]

I'm not making anything, they are objective in my opinion. Again, you fail to recognize whether I'm making anything or not is a matter of opinion. You're doing what you're criticizing other people for.

Fun is subjective, yes. Some people don't even play MMOs to begin with, which is totally fair. But that FFXIV is slowly pushing away old school players by making the game dull to them is objective. That this is bad, and other MMOs at some point regret doing this is also objective. If you don't bring in enough players, you're going to lose money.

It's very hard to convince this new generation to play MMORPGs. Action, single player games and gachas are much more appealing to teenagers. You definitely don't want to lose people, and it is possible to make a game for both groups. FFXIV MSQ and gearing is always designed with the casual community in mind. It's also very easy to get into raiding, once you get to level cap. Strongest crafted gear is always relevant. Now the developers are overdoing this design, losing hardcore players and even midcore, who want to grind something that's not a useless achievement like Hoarder. And with MSQ having such a terrible reception, they start losing casual players as well.

"Tons of people are happy" >>> I don't think you are aware that Dawntrail is the worst received expansion in such a long time, maybe the worst of all time. The situation is so bad FFXIV started losing more casual players, even though it was always designed around these people. It's such cheap quality that Yoshi-P had to apologize multiple times in public, promising changes in content.

[coffeebiscuit]

Stop answer the troll, please. All that wonderful feedback bout dragoon now being mixed with replies to the troll that definitely just here to piss you all.

[HikariKurosawa]

Stop answer the troll, please. All that wonderful feedback bout dragoon now being mixed with replies to the troll that definitely just here to piss you all.

Or, I would genuinely be unhappy with the game if they rolled back the changes they've implemented to dragoon. Definitely all about you though. The level of egocentric and entitled behavior I'm seeing in this thread is pretty wild.

You're free to express your opinions, just like I am free to say that I disagree and prefer the way the job plays now.

The reason I keep posting is because I care about the job staying this way, just like the reason you are posting. Nobody is trolling here, except for the people who say that "nobody wanted these changes". I did, I never enjoyed managing eyes, nor do I consider that a defining trait of the job. It was a clunky mechanic that made the gameplay flow poorly moment to moment.

But it's fine, keep pretending you're the only ones that matter.

"but there are 20-30 of us who really dislike the changes!! some of us even made a forum account just to complain!!"