Thread: 7.1 Dragoon Changes Complaints

Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

And complexity may not be exactly measurable, but it's hardly subjective.

To add to that, it is also an objective fact that classes have become more and more simplistic over the years instead of becoming more complex.

I think this was a deliberate move by the developers because they wanted to make the fights themselves the interesting parts of the gameplay instead of the rotations, but I could be misremembering that.

Originally Posted by ovIm

To add to that, it is also an objective fact that classes have become more and more simplistic over the years instead of becoming more complex.

I think this was a deliberate move by the developers because they wanted to make the fights themselves the interesting parts of the gameplay instead of the rotations, but I could be misremembering that.

So there are two parts to this. The first is a pre-Dawntrail interview about job homogenization, where Yoshida acknowledged that it's a problem, but stated that there has also been a tendency to develop battle content that is too safe in recent years. So what he said in that interview was that for Dawntrail in particular since they didn't want to change everything all at once and make it feel like a completely different game, that the team had decided to first focus on making more interesting and experimental battle content, and that significant changes to make jobs feel more unique would likely be more of an 8.0 thing.

The other is I believe a much older interview, which I wasn't actually able to find but did want to bring up because I remember it being discussed. In that interview or whatever it was, it was stated that the overall goal from expansion to expansion is to in most cases keep jobs at roughly the same level of complexity, particularly after the devs saw the issues that were caused by how complex jobs were to play in Heavensward. There was an initial scaling back from that in Stormblood (at least in their eyes, personally I do think at least a few jobs got more complex going into Stormblood and even Shadowbringers) and from there they wanted to keep things the same so players wouldn't feel overwhelmed. At least that's how I remember that question being answered, but again I wasn't able to find that interview, so there is a chance I'm not remembering things perfectly.

Reading through this thread since I last replied, it really is just funny to read cause we have someone pretending they have a clear idea on how to play a job at the current max level when they have never ATTEMPTED to run content or anything with it at Lv100, and everyone else simply want this job to be actually *fun* to play.

Objectively speaking, this job is super unfun to play after the patch had dropped, and no amount of damage modifiers is going to make the job better If the entire nature of the job isn't there. Do you want a maiming job that is easy to learn and also have access to the same gear sets? its called Reaper, and was introduced in the last expansion. You should give it a try if you want a brain dead maiming job than ask for the other one to be nerfed.

Simply put, the forums are the most likely place for devs to see the feedback for any change, and the fact of the matter is: There is absolutely no one in favor of this change, and we are simply doing what we are supposed to do: giving FEEDBACK
There is absolutely no preference to this: the job plays worse and everyone wants to see it be better.

Originally Posted by HikariKurosawa

Use your brain to make the world a better place, not to parse 99.

You should also read and take up your own advice rather than constantly yap here in the forums, every single day, about how so many people like this change when its just you arguing with most people here about how they should consume product and never ask questions, rather than give feedback on this change.

Originally Posted by iiOmarSP

Objectively speaking, this job is super unfun to play after the patch had dropped

Fun itself is a subjective concept. I don't want to play reaper lol, I like the job fantasy of dragoon and the animations. You just like mashing lots of buttons fast. Since you're suggesting me to play another job for gameplay, this means you must have no attachment to the fantasy of dragoon. So just play a different job yourself. Dragoon has always been one of the simpler melee jobs in the game. Play ninja, play samurai, play something else yourself.

It's okay to give feedback, just recognize that you're stating subjective positions and don't try to argue with other people for expressing their subjective opinions.

There's no need to try to struggle for an echo chamber, it's not happening. State your case and be confident in it, stop yammering about the validity of differing opinions.

I get that you feel a certain way, speak for yourself.

The forums being a place for feedback statement goes both ways. I have never tried to invalidate your opinions or perspective, I just say that I like the way the game has changed and you decide that's a reason to argue. I explain why I like it, and you try to silence my perspective for what? Because you want an echo chamber. It's not happening lol. Get over it and move on.

Even if the majority of people were celebrating the changes and there was only a minority of people going against them, I wouldn't try to censor the opinions of the people who dislike them. It's okay to express your feedback. Go ahead with it. Stop crying over other people enjoying change.

You're doing the same as the people you're criticizing, though. You think it's objective that these questions are subjective. It's not objective. They already gave you the arguments as to why you are wrong, yet you ignored them. It's fine. Just know you're not doing any different.

Not only are they objective, it's something the developers usually only realize when it's too late. Pushing away long-time MMO players is never a good decision.

They are making the game unfun, slowly removing all of the things the old school players liked. And replacing it with predictable, easy and less creative content. Job design is only the tip of the iceberg. While fun is subjective, what matters to the developers is the best decision for the game.

Originally Posted by brinn12

You're doing the same as the people you're criticizing, though. You think it's objective that these questions are subjective. It's not objective. They already gave you the arguments as to why you are wrong, yet you ignored them. It's fine. Just know you're not doing any different.

Not only are they objective, it's something the developers usually only realize when it's too late. Pushing away long-time MMO players is never a good decision.

They are making the game unfun, slowly removing all of the things the old school players liked. And replacing it with predictable, easy and less creative content. Job design is only the tip of the iceberg. While fun is subjective, what matters to the developers is the best decision for the game.

You can't just arbitrarily make subjective opinions objective rofl. Yes, I get that your feelings are real. They're still subject to your own preferences and opinions.

I've never done the same thing the people I am criticizing are doing though. You should read my language better. Why would I consider their opinions? It's not rocket science, I understand exactly where you are all coming from, I just don't see eye to eye and don't want what you want. I understand why the devs make the decisions they are making, and I appreciate them.

Everything else you say is just you pushing your own agenda, so what's the point in me as an individual taking it seriously? I don't want what you want, at the end of the day it's up to the devs, but as it is going, I support the direction the devs are pushing the game in.

If they go with what you want, that's fine. I will just unsubscribe and play something else. I'm easy come easy go. I think you should learn from me, if you want to be happy and make a difference in the game direction. Vote with your wallet.

Honestly though, I don't think they want the old school players around anymore. For several expansions all you have been doing is complaining and doomsaying about the direction of the game. Maybe they are trying to push this negative part of the community away. There are tons of people who are happy with the game and the way it is going. Maybe you're just not wanted here anymore. If you don't like what you're buying, stop buying it. Simple concept. If you're struggling with addiction, get help.