complaint post about current dungeons

[Moqi]

As I noted, I have cleared all the DT MSQ content using Duty Support.

The idea that those who cannot currently clear the MSQ content are "unwanted" does not exhibit a great deal of empathy. And I don't recall ever seeing a MSQ dungeon in PF outside of minimum ilevel attempts or farming rewards.

Would it really be such a burden on you if, for example, Duty Support included an option to be rezzed by NPCs? That's the kind of discussion I think is helpful here. Not making bizarre accusations that there's a correlation between a person's age and how entitled and inconsiderate they are.

Just what are you talking about now lol.

I was not talking about you specifically. You're the one who wrote we. That includes other people. Why you started talking for other people I don't know, but those were your words.

The idea that those who cannot currently clear the MSQ content are "unwanted" does not exhibit a great deal of empathy.

Do you just not understand sentences? If you can't clear content, don't go into places that expect you to be able to clear content. That does not mean everywhere...Anyone is very welcome to make a thread in PF. But the answer to "why is going into DF expecting a carry not entitled" is always dodged lol.

And I don't recall ever seeing a MSQ dungeon in PF outside of minimum ilevel attempts or farming rewards.

Maybe because the number of people who actually need that is incredibly small and this is non-issue? Or maybe because it's a one and done, so it doesn't get asked often anyway? Or maybe it's because they fill up incredibly quick? And why does it matter anyway how frequently you see those threads pop up? That is of no importance.

Would it really be such a burden on you if, for example, Duty Support included an option to be rezzed by NPCs? That's the kind of discussion I think is helpful here.

Why would it? But it's also not at all what OP is asking so... what? That is not at all what the "conversation" was about.

Not making bizarre accusations that there's a correlation between a person's age and how entitled and inconsiderate they are.

You started this whole thing by saying old people playing arcade games and racing cars (???) just step aside when they realize they're too old to keep up and I simply pointed out that they don't ask for everything to be changed unlike in this game. Do you remember that? OP didn't even mention their age.

You sound very confused (and keep deraling) and I'm just repeating myself at this point so... no point in banging my head against the wall. I've said all I needed to say.

[Caro178]

Personally I would have no problem with each boss in duty support having one respawn similar to how they've made duty support trials if that helps players who struggle but prefer to play the MSQ alone. That's exactly the type of thing people should be arguing for rather than "DT dungeons 2 hard" and "everyone who wants minimally more challenging normal content lacks empathy". It's a game and there are already tons of ways to make mandatory duties easier just by swapping roles. Offering a one-time instant resurrect per boss in duty support would be fine if that's something the devs are willing to implement. Now, it's entirely possible they already see duty support as being easy enough and if that's the case then tough luck. At the end of the day it's their game.

[Valence]

And if you DO just die due to not doing the dungeon much, guess what? The other players will probably help you through it or resurrect you. If you're the healer, it might be wise to play a tank if you're just gonna die to everything, because tanks can survive lots of things and get carried by the healer and get a rez, while a healer dying might potentially doom the pull depending on the other players/roles present.

I've actually been feeling this for a few expansions now and I'd like to give some examples. They started it in Shadowbringers with E4, which had such a dramatic pace that a lot of people were overwhelmed or didn't even want to try the savage version. The tempo only gets more intense as it gets on.

In Endwalker, they really tried to apply this tempo to certain dungeons such as Tower of Zot and The Dead Ends. And of course, observing ones surroundings only got more the case through these expansions, to the point just looking at the boss would not cut it anymore.

As people endlessly ask for "more difficulty in dungeons", they once again tried to push this fast tempo in Dawntrail dungeons. But is it truly faster than the prior examples I gave? I don't think so, because SE ultimately has about 3 seconds before each thing "resolves" in sequence, even if there's no cast.

It feels sort of intense but they still give you actual time. Even if I do the mechanic wrong, with my high ping I can still quickly move out of the red area before it disappears, despite it only appearing for 1 second near the end of the cast. And that's when I've done the mechanic wrong - as we've been saying, the red only appearing for 1 second means there was some other tell such as an animation, cast name or environmental clue.

Yes, the pace is way faster and doesn't necessarily lies in the castbars or how things can be dodged individually, but in how mechanics are being chained. If you're not convinced, look at the second boss of Tender Valley and how it shotguns bomb mechanics after bomb mechanics. Or how submechanics like in the second boss of Vanguard just barrage the player with a constant stream of bullet hell or a long merry go round with AoEs dropping everywhere in your path. This is something that isn't unique to XIV or MMOs. This is something you'll find across many games, from FPS to RTS, where the real time component is a variable that plays a big role in difficulty.

As a sidenote because it's not tied to casual but ultimates, FRU was announced in the last PLL to come with extremely fast mechanics, which tends to hint at a trend with DT and how it designs encounters.

so... what would be the solution? every msq dungeon being slow whil all the optionsl ones will be faster?

that would mean they have to split the dungeons and only making every second dungeon for the msq. (or making two dungeons per patch but that doesnt seem to be an option).

but that would also mean splitting the roulette and the queues into two.

we could make ALL dungeons slow but that would widen the gap between casual and and other content which is probably not a good idea.

and then there would be the problem of people getting even more bored in that long msq with even less thinking

To me the solution is quite obvious, but probably not something that would please SE or the more action focused part of the community: bring back breathing room between mechanics, and make mechanics more intricate with player decisions (how to handle adds, how to handle stacks, how to juggle with mechanics, resources etc), make them interact with the job toolkits, make them more about using your brain and less about using your reflexes, but then again, would it really solve anything? It would just push away another subset of the player base that doesnt exactly shine by their problem solving skills or decision making, or figuring out more complex systems.

I also want to add to that, I actually find the mechanics that rely on remembering patterns one after the other difficult because my memory is awful! It's mechanics that lay down a bunch of markers, orange tiles etc etc that I cannot keep up with.

Memory based mechanics aren't difficulty they just suck if you have bad memory.

There is many things at play. The current game is indeed action and memory at executing a script with not much deviation. I have problems with the current design precisely because my ND makes me hyperfocus on everything I do to ensure I do everything perfectly right, and this does not mesh well with real time gated execution. After EW I've come to a point where as a high end raider I've stumbled for the first time on really problematic mechanics that literally blocked me of a kind that I had never really had any issue with before, notably: Superchain Theory, the whole 3rd boss of Criterion Rokkon, current Zoraal Ja EX (one of the worst offenders for me), and many mechanics in M4S like EE1 or worst, Twilight Sabbath and the electric jumps (notice a pattern?). Those, I can legit not solve without callouts or following people (when it is possible). It is something that baffled me at first because as I said, it's the first time I had to deal with such a wall for my brain to process in real time, where on other mechanics like more classic ones of the type of idk, Pangenesis, Classical Theory to name the most recent ones, I learn faster than most of the members of the statics I've been into, because I have time to solve them and I have extremely good triaging reflexes. Point is, fortunately casual pve content remains beneath my thresholds, but I've actually felt the same problem I've read from those players, just in savage, so I can relate there. And the problem is that while savage is optional, msq dungeons are not. I'm not old, but I'm ND and it shows to me with how the game has changed. Welcome to my Ted talk I guess.

But then again, it's just how I read it, and I'm also biased because it's not a direction the game has been taking that I appreciate, because that's not what I find engaging nor what I do value in the game, unfortunately.

[OogaShaka]

ty all for the opinions and advice will try it moving forward, really only do the roulettes and it wasnt so bad till this expansion, prolly better to just skip expert in roulettes going forward since i can still max out tomestones without it .