Crafting in General - OMG Fix It

[zzapp]

Yesterday I reached rank 34 Leatherworking, when making fleece first comes available, so I thought I would give it a try.

I attempted this synth at ranks 32 and 33, and could not attempt, so it is definitely a rank 44 synthesis. (Also I received ~1500 xp for each synthesis, further confirming for me that it is +10 ranks)

I suppose by luck I happened upon the right configuration of stats, and was using a good set of crafting abilities (Mass Production, Fulfillment, Assemble, Ingenuity), but I successfully completed the synthesis 11 out of 11 times. I can understand luck allowing me to succeed once, or even twice but a 100% completion rate on 11 synths in row seems unlikely to attribute to the RNG gods.

Having said that, I then went and attempted white coral arrows (a rank 39 synthesis) at rank 30 carpentry, only to have a 50% success rate (two successes out of four). I attributed that to an incorrect balancing of my crafting attributes, and so will have to try and shift them around and see if I can't improve things.

I personally think that the crafting game does reward skill and a deeper understanding of what is going on. Although I don't claim to fully understand it, that is what keeps the crafting game interesting to me -- there is still more to learn. People over the Battle Mechanics section are complaining that battles are too easy. Please, please, please, SE, don't neuter the crafting system and make it "easy-mode".

Ami, this is just another example of how the crafting system is broken, just the other side of the coin. Personally, I don't believe anyone should be able to 11/11 a recipe 10 ranks above them. I don't care what gear you have, what abilities you choose to use, what support or food you use. The liklihood of success in this particular scenario should be very slim, however, enhanced if you are willing to put in the time and effort to figure out what works best for this particular synth.

All I've advocated in my various posts here is:

1. Synthesis should be challenging, yet fair.
2. As one progresses in rank, a particular recipe should become easier to synth - not 6-7 ranks of no noticeable improvement (or even diminised success ratios).
3. Abilities should work - as advertised. Some are partially broken (Perfection), others are totally broken (Flawlessness) as far as I can tell. Fix them or change the in-game description to what they truly are intended to do.
4. Not once have I advocated making crafting easier - just fairer. I.E. - A reasonable probabily (yes I know some RNG needs exist, otherwise crafting would be more boring than it already is). Skills should be the primary factor, not some wide-ranging RNG or timed rage mode.
5. I happen to think that unstable modes are a bit punative. 35 durability loss and 100+ quality loss when something goes chaotic is a bit much, imo.
6. Fix rapid and especially bold so that it's pertinent. HQ's should be more a reflection of skill and technique (and of course materials), not some wildly random extrapolation.
7. Balance jobs and leve's.

Since this game is so crafting concentric, it's imperative that it be challenging and fair, not some Chutes and Ladders roll of the dice, that leaves me wanting to put my foot thru my monitor and take a sledgehammer to my PC. Challenging, fun, fair are the operative words, and I have faith that SE will get this right in the very near future.

Peace out.

[Reika]

It was one of my suggestions in another thread that crafting success be based on your stats, not your rank. We all know it is your rank vs item rank. damn near everything in this game is determined by your rank vs other rank, even battle. I hope the battle changes put an end to that, but it needs to be the same with crafting, otherwise people would be crafting naked with the same results. And yes... I have tested crafting naked, even on higher rank recipes: the tool seemed to be enough. VERY little change, if any. Stats dont do enough.

It needs to be crafting stats vs recipe stat requirement, not crafting rank vs recipe rank. The rank can still be there to determine the SP you get, but not the success rate.

[Uzziah]

I can't really be bothered to continue to read all the posts on this thread as most of them, after 2 pages, are totally off topic. The author of this thread has nailed the issues right on the head. Over the last 7 months, I've noticed the algorithm change several times. Sometimes it's changed for the better and sometimes for the worse. Right now, it is totally stupid.

SE, let me tell you what I think. We who play the DoH classes work hard at ranking up, just like any other class. After we've invested so many hours in a class, grinding, day in and day out, we expect our character to have obtained a degree of "SKILL" to represent our tireless effort. A crafter should not break a synth lower than his current rank more than 3 to 4% of the time. As the distance between the rank of a synth and our class rank gets greater we should fail even less. When we are first allowed to attempt a synth, the degree of difficulty is great, however should gradually get easier as our rank approaches the synth rank. This transition from rank to rank should be fluid and seamless.

SE, I put it to you that you guys are the ones who dreamed up this process. If it were to work the way it should, it wouldn't be a bad system. However, it is terrible in its current state and desperately needs fixing.

Surely after allowing this game to be released in such a state that any company would be embarrassed to even put their name on it, SE corporate must be giving you a large enough budget to work on the various components of the game at an equal rate?

Please, give some attention to this problem because people who craft should be no less important than those who battle?

[Reika]

Sadly according to poll results, people that craft ARE less important than people that battle >.> Decided by the players themselves...

Tho they need to implement crafting system changes sooner rather than later.

[Jinko]

Sadly according to poll results, people that craft ARE less important than people that battle >.> Decided by the players themselves...

Tho they need to implement crafting system changes sooner rather than later.

Goes without saying that most people play games to kill shit :P

Quoting my idea from the other post to give it a bit more exposure :P

1) When you start synthesis your character starts to do his animation non stop, whilst he appears to be crafting you then select the skills at your own speed.

This way you don't click a skill wait for animation, click a different skill wait for animation, you just click one skill after the other.

It would make crafting soooooo much faster.

2) They Should also redesigning the crafting UI, I want to see either an action bar or buttons instead of selectable text.

3) Why do my skills pop up randomly ?, its so annoying, wouldn't it make more sense that you start a synth with all the skills available and then they become greyed out or disappear as you use them ?

[Eldaena]

Goes without saying that most people play games to kill shit :P

Quoting my idea from the other post to give it a bit more exposure :P

The randomness of the abilities I think is suppose to test your skill. The more abilities you have the more they can show up, but with some of the abilities people get, if they would just start out with those abilities always, they could easily finish the synth without effort. Think like Perfection + Hand of the Gods + what have you. What would be the point of even having a mini game then? I think that's why the abilities are random. You increase your chances of getting abilities to help by gaining ranks and abilities in the first place. The real skill is using those abilities to their fullest when they do show up. Does that make sense?

[Jinko]

The randomness of the abilities I think is suppose to test your skill. The more abilities you have the more they can show up, but with some of the abilities people get, if they would just start out with those abilities always, they could easily finish the synth without effort. Think like Perfection + Hand of the Gods + what have you. What would be the point of even having a mini game then? I think that's why the abilities are random. You increase your chances of getting abilities to help by gaining ranks and abilities in the first place. The real skill is using those abilities to their fullest when they do show up. Does that make sense?

How can it be based on skill when something bad happens and the skill is not there for me to use.

The skill is in saving an ability/skill in case of something occurring during synthesis or using it to help the progression of a particularly hard synth.

[Eldaena]

How can it be based on skill when something bad happens and the skill is not there for me to use.

The skill is in saving an ability/skill in case of something occurring during synthesis or using it to help the progression of a particularly hard synth.

I explained it clearly. ^-^ You can stack your chances for success more towards your favor by gaining the abilities you use. However, the real task is utilizing the abilities at your disposal as they appear in your list of actions. It is almost definite that you will get some of your abilities regardless of the synth, but the uncertainty of synthesis brings about random abilities showing up at their own will. This is like a realistic aspect. Each situation is different, so each synthesis is as well. It's not like it's unfair to some people and not to others because the abilities are generated in anyone's command list randomly, regardless of your rank. It is what makes crafting a challenge and actually LESS monotonous than if we had all the abilities from the start of the synthesis.

[Eldaena]

I explained it clearly. ^-^ You can stack your chances for success more towards your favor by gaining the abilities you use. However, the real task is utilizing the abilities at your disposal as they appear in your list of actions. It is almost definite that you will get some of your abilities regardless of the synth, but the uncertainty of synthesis brings about random abilities showing up at their own will. This is like a realistic aspect. Each situation is different, so each synthesis is as well. It's not like it's unfair to some people and not to others because the abilities are generated in anyone's command list randomly, regardless of your rank. It is what makes crafting a challenge and actually LESS monotonous than if we had all the abilities from the start of the synthesis.

Crafting is always a gamble. There are random number generators everywhere which is why we can't succeed 100% of the time, even as a rank 50 crafter. This is also what makes crafting 'interesting.'

[Reika]

I don't believe in casinos.