Thread: Patch 7.1 Notes: PvP

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Is Crystalline Conflict this bad, or does the smaller team size ameliorate the problem? Because I don't think I can suffer this iteration of FL.

It is horrible :/ you have skills coming out extremely delayed because the dmg/heals/effects don't come through til the end of the animation(s). I haven't even done FL yet but I'd imagine with such a smaller group and coordination needing to be on point it is much more noticeable in CC how bad it is. For example I can't even use MNK burst because the dmg of phantom rush comes out at the end of the long ass animation. They made everything only function at the end of the animation. Need a heal that's on a skill from Harvest moon on RPR? Wait til the skill reaches the target, animation to finish then your heal comes through. Same for chaotic cyclone and impalement, once I'm done being a ballerina then I get my heal. Purify doesn't even remove the cc until the animation is done. Coupled with already bad server ticks it just feels horrible to play.

Maybe after getting used to it, it'll be meh at best, but I doubt even getting used to it will make it feel less clunky.

EDIT: Playing melee feels horrible because of the hit detection, you can legit start your animation in one spot and drag it with you, for example I used impalement out of range of my target, then walked onto them and because the hit detection isn't til the end, it considered me hitting them. Playing ranged feels a bit more fine, if not a bit better imo.

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

snip

Thank you for your feedback! That puts a lot of things into perspective...

Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Essentially where you see an enemy and where the server claims that enemy is when targeting is resolved are two very different things.

This right here makes so much sense, I hadn't even considered it.

Regarding CC, yeah I'd say it's the same (I've only played CC yesterday, no FL, so I can't compare but my CC experience was rather miserable).

As for class reworks, I agree with those who criticise the loss of flavor.
I can kind of see what they did with BLM because ironically it's now closer to the fire(damage)/ice(utility) dichotomy but tbh in terms of fun I prefer the old version.
Superflare bind/freeze gameplay was just good.

Disappointed in RDM and GNB. Not much to add to that. :/
If they insist on ignoring guard with the new melee combo then they could have replaced the dot with the guard-breaking effect in black shift.

AST has me torn. I'm glad we finally got a movement tool, which AST direly needed and at least there is still a semblance of RNG with the cards but it definitely lost part of its identity for the sake of simplicity. Once again.
Double gravity is kind of hmm now. Extending heavy and removing bind for a stun that you can only use when you LB doesn't feel good as a tradeoff. (I get the stun is useful in the context of the LB and makes the latter a bit more reliable. But still. I don't know. Maybe I'm just salty right now.)

Personally I also don't really like how PLD plays now.
It may very well be because I'm not particularly good at this class and better players might appreciate the new damage and debuff but I miss the mobility of the two dash charges.

In the past PLD kind of needed them because of sacred claim. Ppl would run away and you'd lose part of your healing but having a second dash charge was a good way to stop them from escaping.
The new model with Holy Spirit's and Confiteor's big burst heals probably makes up for it (all in all it might even be better in terms of health regeneration?) but they also change the playstyle.
I know the other tanks only have one dash charge too (though DRK has a dash reset condition iirc) but I felt like this was a nice perk/tradeoff of PLD as a class: making sustainability a bit more "challenging" but giving you more mobility (which can also translate into utility beyond just self-healing).
So whereas DRK and War could pull ppl back in, PLD was better at chasing and was kind of "the fast" tank.
I guess that's gone now.

Perhaps if I get used to the new playstyle I'll end up liking it but right now it feels a bit meh.

Ok played some more and it's just the combination of bad changes adding up for me:


1. Input ignored - the amount of times I though "I swear I pressed this button" only for nothing to happen is just too high at this point. It's particularly depressing when it comes to defensive skills. Holy Sheltron? I swear I pressed that one. Tempera Coat? Didn't I press-...Etc.
Worst, since it worked before it's so ingrained into my muscle memory that I sometimes don't notice right away. Because in the past I didn't need to check. Now I get stun-locked into oblivion only for me to realise that Purify didn't activate.

2. Delay - Everything's been said on that one. It's just sad.

3. Targeting - not sure if it has become worse (though Mawlzy's explanation sounds very plausible) but auto-target sometimes even selects someone behind a wall much further away from me while ignoring the person standing closer and in my line of sight.

Now the next one is a skill issue I guess, but personally I'm just not enjoying the new meta. I know change is change but this one's not for me.

4. Massive shift in "ranged - melee" balance:
Since damage has increased and more classes got stun/silence/draw ins/screw guard (I think? - though BLM and MNK lost theirs)* while Purify has been decreased to 3 seconds playing melee feels a lot more punishing now.
It doesn't really make much sense to add more means to disable other players while decreasing their protective abilities to meaningfully play around that.
Now getting chain-stunned happens even more often and there's just nothing you can do. You can't even guard properly because now many classes can lower or ignore your guard.
Healing has increased a bit but I think it's vastly outpaced by the increase in damage (if you have one extra 8k heal but everyone else gets one extra 8k damage skill, well...)
Healers got more AoE and single-target healing but you don't always have a healer on your team while you'll always have increased damage because everyone's damage has gone up.

Overall playing ranged seems considerably more rewarding and just safer/more comfortable to me? The "ranged but more fragile" trade-off doesn't hit as hard anymore I think.

* I haven't counted the number of disabling skills. Too lazy rn. But PCT alone got two and Sage got two (draw-in + bind) as well.

5. Bonus (more of a question): I've noticed a (stark) mismatch between KO displays during the game and kill numbers in the final table. Though tbf I don't know if it was like that pre-patch or if I'm just paying more attention now.
I recall several matches today and yesterday where I've been shown as the one KO-ing someone 4-5 times over the course of a match but the post-match kill count says 1-2 kills (and seems to move the others into the Assist column).
That's not game-breaking obviously. But I think it's just a weird discrepancy. I wonder if this could also be caused by some latency/hit detection issues. Perhaps K.Os in the match are processed/counted differently than the actual kill count for the table?

Originally Posted by Loggos

5. Bonus (more of a question): I've noticed a (stark) mismatch between KO displays during the game and kill numbers in the final table. Though tbf I don't know if it was like that pre-patch or if I'm just paying more attention now.
I recall several matches today and yesterday where I've been shown as the one KO-ing someone 4-5 times over the course of a match but the post-match kill count says 1-2 kills (and seems to move the others into the Assist column).
That's not game-breaking obviously. But I think it's just a weird discrepancy. I wonder if this could also be caused by some latency/hit detection issues. Perhaps K.Os in the match are processed/counted differently than the actual kill count for the table?

Who gets credited with the KO has always appeared somewhat random, likely because of snapshotting. I haven't noticed the Ks that pop up in game differing from the end-of-game table, but I'll look out for that when I'm running my roulettes. I'd put more research into it, but that would involve playing multiple matches.

I have had far more cases of bursting into someone, them dying, and not getting credit even for an assist. I guess they were dead already. Or I was attacking someone else? Who tf knows at this point, it's a clownfest.