Failing to address multiplayer in PVP is a mistake

[Ath192]

It's extremely frustrating SE wont allow multiplayer PVP in CC. They go to lengths to imitate games like overwatch and LOL in their pvp offering and yet all the games they take inspiration from lets players actually play with their friends....

[Ath192]

Entire communities could form around this gameplay and yet SE insists on making it a solo experience. It's truly baffling.

[ovIm]

Entire communities could form around this gameplay and yet SE insists on making it a solo experience. It's truly baffling.

Sometimes it feels like Square likes their solo experience too much..

However, it also makes me wonder if the pool of PVP Players is so low that Square also does that to ensure fast duty pops. Cause if we do end up allowing duo and trio queues, we essentially divide the amount of players available to DF. That's something people will only be able to assume though, I fear.

[undull1]

Sometimes it feels like Square likes their solo experience too much..

Oh god, I can already picture it....

"In response to player feedback we will be spending all PvP resources on implementing solo trust PvP with all your favourite scions.
Maps and jobs will be adjusted accordingly, please enjoy it!"

[Ritsugamesh]

To be fair, a lot of these before-mentioned 5v5 games already have "bot matches" where its you with 4 AI against 5 AI, or you and 2-4 humans against 5 AI. Play 'em on easy, and it's so scripted you can play with your eyes closed, play 'em on hard and the AI literally cheats, lol. Said modes still see activity though, with the only caveat being that the human players (regardless of how many) receive reduced rewards, usually half, compared to playing a "real" match and most if not all achievements aren't counted. Given how many players only queue PVP in FF14 for marks/crystals/tomes/XP, it *could* be an avenue to funnel low/zero skill players out of the normal version. (Though what affect that would have on queue times of the normal mode when the majority moves out of it...)

That said, HELL NO to premades in Crystaline Conflict. They're already a goddamn blight in Frontlines and Rival Wings, and that's still taking into account the RNG of the rest of the team. Only 5 people with that level of coordination? Absolute clown show where solo queue folks would just give up and not try (thereby bringing the same lethargy that premades brought to Frontlines/Rival Wings). The only way it could work is if premades got splintered off into their own separate queue, but I don't know if we have the numbers to sustain that either.

The problem with PVP in general in FF14 is that there's one group that wants to turn it into sweaty all-day competition, another group that just wants to faff about and get their goodies, and there's the third group stuck in the middle who just wants non-obnoxious PVP but keeps getting forced to deal with the first two groups. Suggestions have been made before to divide them into different tiers & queues (ranked/premade for the hardcore, bots for the zipcore, and what we have now for everyone else), but it always comes back to one issue: Would there be enough people to populate each mode and the answer is always a big fat "EH... I DON'T KNOW".

I swear to god people don't even read the 'other side' of the argument. Nobody wants a 5 stack premade stomping 5 solo players. That is so obviously a terrible idea it amazes me people think this is what is requested. Literally no game with PVP would do this, can we stop already.

If a duo is in the match, the matchmaker puts a duo on the other team. Literally perfectly balanced and duo q is implemented. Job done. How is this so hard to comprehend?

[Jeeqbit]

makes me wonder if the pool of PVP Players is so low that Square also does that to ensure fast duty pops

It's not so low that they don't provide a separate Ranked queue, which is (meant to be) further divided by the skill level of those ranked players but in practice they all get matched together anyway due to lack of players and sometimes Ranked players give up and join the casual queue like I did.

If they are going to provide that they may as well divide it even more on the off chance it satisfies the players that want to queue as a party.

[Ath192]

It's not so low that they don't provide a separate Ranked queue, which is (meant to be) further divided by the skill level of those ranked players but in practice they all get matched together anyway due to lack of players and sometimes Ranked players give up and join the casual queue like I did.

If they are going to provide that they may as well divide it even more on the off chance it satisfies the players that want to queue as a party.

This is a chicken or egg situation, we don't know if the pop is lower because they intentionally hold back modes that would get more people into PVP, such as playing with friends.... or because PVP was never going to be popular to begin with. Either way, I stand by my opinion no other popular PVP game straight up prohibits queuing with friends.

Private matches requires the intense workload of being a human duty finder for 9 others. So this is not a viable solution except for well organized tournaments, not quick fun. All that needs to happen is for the duty finder to mirror pre-made team headcounts.

Posit the following scenario:

What is more likely to get a shy new person into PVP?

A) A friend getting you into it and queuing with you and showing you the ropes, and you guys make it a habit to play the PVP mode co-op.

B) Queuing solo for the first time and getting absolutely wrecked while strangers spam sarcastic good match! and giving you hate commendations

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It's this mentality that holds Square back, the notion that they are protecting you by limiting your options, but that doesn't protect you, as highlighted in option B, which totally happens, and it only isolates you and makes it less fun.

[Shougun]

If they rank, casual including, with the system specifically recognizing teams, to match teams to teams, and also have the player pool to do this, then sure.

Otherwise your fun is another person's garbage fire of an experience, speaking from experience when they allowed this and it was pointless to queue solo.

Not that I'm saying I can't see why you want to play with friends, I can easily imagine that.. just that coordination is a high value for determining wins, and solo queues vs a team queue is like a 99.9% loss before the game has started.

[Ath192]

If they rank, casual including, with the system specifically recognizing teams, to match teams to teams, and also have the player pool to do this, then sure.

Otherwise your fun is another person's garbage fire of an experience, speaking from experience when they allowed this and it was pointless to queue solo.

Not that I'm saying I can't see why you want to play with friends, I can easily imagine that.. just that coordination is a high value for determining wins, and solo queues vs a team queue is like a 99.9% loss before the game has started.

Well of course. But isn’t that common sense? We all want decently fair matches. However being forced to play solo is not fun. It’s not about gaining a specific advantage, it is about encouraging friends and community in an MMO which ironically severely lacks content worth bonding with others over.

All the games CC could have drawn inspiration from have a balancing system like this in place to specifically enable players to play with friends, as they know that is a major reason gamers enjoy them.