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  1. #11
    Player
    Astronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2024
    Posts
    287
    Character
    Astronis Smythe
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by WaxSw View Post
    Double shield stacking could allow for players to cheat the "dance" since many of the mechanic's debuffs are applied the moment they damage the player and a shield that covers the whole damage nullifies the application of those debuffs.
    Virtually guaranteed it's this. If you can avoid the debuffs via shields, there's all manner of mechs you can cheat.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player
    noumen0nn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Posts
    219
    Character
    Mara Sagegrove
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    It's a balance thing, like others have said. Shields are very powerful, hence why the majority of them are tied to long-cooldown abilities. Things like Divine Veil and Shake It Off can stack, because the merit of getting a super-powered shield is balanced by the cost of committing both resources at once and not having either available for the next 90 seconds.

    If you could stack SCH and SGE's gcd shields, it would trivialize even the mitigation checks in ultimates, for the relatively low cost of one broil/dosis every time you do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaxSw View Post
    Double shield stacking could allow for players to cheat the "dance" since many of the mechanic's debuffs are applied the moment they damage the player and a shield that covers the whole damage nullifies the application of those debuffs.
    While this is true, there are more debuff-applying mechanics that don't work this way than ones that do, and the ones that do can already be cheesed by stacking other shields or using SCH's recitation-aldo-deploy. Still, to be fair, that also costs a resource, whereas with stackable gcd shields it wouldn't.
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player
    VeyaAkemi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Posts
    678
    Character
    Veya Akemi
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers View Post
    I suspect, rather than balance reasons, it's mechanical. That functionally Adlo and E.Diag are the same thing with a different skin and so short of writing new code to differentiate the two abilities it's impossible to stack them. That would allow for legitimate accusations of laziness on the part of the dev team but they get enough of those as is.
    Why would this be the case? we have a lot of objectively identical buffs that stack, it doesn't matter if there are 6 WHM in an Alliance Raid, all of them will be able to apply their own Aero/Dia DoT freely, or double Medica/Regen buffs, and those are completely identical, not just in functionality, unlike Adlo and E.Diag, so on, it's very clear that it's a balance choice which kinds of buffs do or don't stack.
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player
    DiaDeem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    1,626
    Character
    Vivian Rysto
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Because you shouldn't run double Shields on Savage, you evil creative gamer!!1
    Now go wall-to-wall HM ARR reworked Dungeons with our streamlined horrible Trust system.
    (2)

  5. #15
    Player
    Daeriion_Aeradiir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    601
    Character
    Daeriion Aeradiir
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by WaxSw View Post
    Balance.

    Double shield stacking could allow for players to cheat the "dance" since many of the mechanic's debuffs are applied the moment they damage the player and a shield that covers the whole damage nullifies the application of those debuffs.

    It also increases the problem of double shield comp being far superior healing wise than shield + regen or double regen
    Every single debuff in Savage+ these days always applies regardless of how much damage you take, they intentionally started doing this in EW when lots of vulns were being ignored in Eden tiers due to super shielding.
    If any direct mechanic even remotely dangerous in any fight's "Dance" could be ignored with shielding, you 100% bet stacking tons of party mit on it to zero it out would become mandatory since SCH can save a crit-adlo for it, but that's not the case, all debuffs that matter get applied anyway.

    That being said, it is the general correct thought process. The shields don't stack because most healing in higher end content comes from preventative measures rather than reactive healing, so double shields would be stupidly OP, especially in phases like TOP P6 that are entirely mit-check based rather than healing based. Double shield healer is already insanely strong even without stacking shields because of the extra mit, preventing shield stacking is basically the one thing that merits exploring AST/WHM as the other option.
    (1)
    Last edited by Daeriion_Aeradiir; 11-06-2024 at 03:01 PM.

  6. #16
    Player
    weebtext's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Posts
    439
    Character
    Teki Suto
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers View Post
    I suspect, rather than balance reasons, it's mechanical. That functionally Adlo and E.Diag are the same thing with a different skin and so short of writing new code to differentiate the two abilities it's impossible to stack them. That would allow for legitimate accusations of laziness on the part of the dev team but they get enough of those as is.

    It is a shame though that the two shield healers conflict with one another, I would like if they changed it so that when a SCH/SGE applies a shield over an existing one it checks instead against the crit shield rather than the base one, that way at least it's semi-deconflicted.
    The fact that even after all this time they still haven't made it so the bigger shield stays applied infuriates me. Nothing is more soul crushing than applying a mega-shield as SCH just for the SGE to obliterate it with a dinky baby shield, and the worst part is when I play SCH I end up paired with a SGE most of the time
    (1)

  7. #17
    Player Kohashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2024
    Posts
    559
    Character
    Lucaon Soho
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by DiaDeem View Post
    Because you shouldn't run double Shields on Savage, you evil creative gamer!!1
    Now go wall-to-wall HM ARR reworked Dungeons with our streamlined horrible Trust system.
    pressing 1 or 2 buttons is now creativity, much wow, much amazement.

    The funny thing is, double shielding in savage is actually a thing, however it requires some coordination.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    AmiableApkallu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2021
    Posts
    1,033
    Character
    Tatanpa Nononpa
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Fun thing I learned today: Differential Diagnosis and Catalyze do stack:



    (Edit: Not the shields the OP was talking about, but it feels relevant, all the same. )
    (0)
    Last edited by AmiableApkallu; 11-07-2024 at 08:41 AM.

  9. 11-08-2024 02:52 AM
    Reason
    Double post

  10. #19
    Player
    Jamini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Posts
    109
    Character
    Jamini Vyharra
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Honestly, I just wish we could swap jobs within roles. If I'm queued as a SGE and my Co-healer is another SGE or SCH, I'd have no problem with swapping to WHM.
    You're actually weakening your team by doing this. SGE+SCH is the strongest healer combo by far- and no serious raid healer GCDs unless you have downtime or your party dies without it.
    (0)

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