Is there data on 'which' players 'farmed' DT Extreme while high-end but not Savage?

[Iscah]

It's generally considered bad form to insult people who thought they were giving you an honest answer. If I hadn't already responded to the thread, I wouldn't be doing it now.

[Gurgeh]

It's generally considered bad form to insult people who thought they were giving you an honest answer. If I hadn't already responded to the thread, I wouldn't be doing it now.

-
selective oversimplification

Although I'll admit ignoring whatever Aoi was or was not and talking only about myself, I was certainly potentially insulting and the person I did a disservice to was myself. But While I wouldn't take flogs away from anyone else, I don't like them, I think its severely harmed my enjoyment and my friends enjoyment, and I won't have it swept under the rug.

If other people want to protect and preserve fflogs that's fine. But do not do it at MY expense.

[Jeeqbit]

7% of registered collectors have the M4 minion (guaranteed drop). Of those:

• 17% have the M4 Savage mount (guaranteed drop)
• 13.89% have the Valigarmanda Extreme mount (2% drop rate)

Now that isn't fair. Valigarmanda's mount drop rate isn't guaranteed, and if it were, the figure would likely be way higher. Let's do this on the previous tier where the extreme mount is guaranteed:

23% have the P12 minion (guaranteed drop). Of those:

• 16.5% have the P12 Savage mount (guaranteed drop)
• 7.8% have the Abyssal Fracture Extreme mount (guaranteed after 50 runs)

So it is looking like more people get the Savage mounts than get the Extreme mounts, despite that Extremes are definitely regarded as easier. More people are clearing the harder content than the easier content if we believe this, because they see Extremes as a joke.

Yet here you are thinking Extremes are for hardcore raiders. Hardcore raiders think they're a joke and aren't even bothering, based on this. Or at least, they put off farming Extremes for years until they can unsync farm them.

___________________________________

Lucky Bancho only gets data on the number of people who cleared last floor savage. Many people only clear 1-3 floors or don't beat last one however.

According to Lucky Bancho (as of yesterday), JP worlds as well as many Aether and Primal worlds, have seen nearly 50% of the people that clear M4 Normal also clear M4 Savage. However, some worlds, particularly on data centers like Meteor, Crystal, Dynamis and Materia, are more in the area of 33%.
Source: https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckyban...7/c7283d1d.png (see last two columns)

So what that tells you is that if you have beaten M4 Normal you have at least a 50% chance of being capable of beating M4 Savage. Your chances of beating 1-3 are likely even higher than that, because we can't get data on those.

(For context, anyone that hasn't beaten M4 Normal is obviously not actually playing the game or didn't beat Dawntrail yet. It's highly unlikely you would be actively playing and not have beat it)

[Gurgeh]

7% of registered collectors have the M4 minion (guaranteed drop). Of those:

• 17% have the M4 Savage mount (guaranteed drop)
• 13.89% have the Valigarmanda Extreme mount (2% drop rate)

Now that isn't fair. Valigarmanda's mount drop rate isn't guaranteed, and if it were, the figure would likely be way higher. Let's do this on the previous tier where the extreme mount is guaranteed:

23% have the P12 minion (guaranteed drop). Of those:

• 16.5% have the P12 Savage mount (guaranteed drop)
• 7.8% have the Abyssal Fracture Extreme mount (guaranteed after 50 runs)

So it is looking like more people get the Savage mounts than get the Extreme mounts, despite that Extremes are definitely regarded as easier. More people are clearing the harder content than the easier content if we believe this, because they see Extremes as a joke.

Yet here you are thinking Extremes are for hardcore raiders. Hardcore raiders think they're a joke and aren't even bothering, based on this. Or at least, they put off farming Extremes for years until they can unsync farm them.

___________________________________

Lucky Bancho only gets data on the number of people who cleared last floor savage. Many people only clear 1-3 floors or don't beat last one however.

According to Lucky Bancho (as of yesterday), JP worlds as well as many Aether and Primal worlds, have seen nearly 50% of the people that clear M4 Normal also clear M4 Savage. However, some worlds, particularly on data centers like Meteor, Crystal, Dynamis and Materia, are more in the area of 33%.
Source: https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckyban...7/c7283d1d.png (see last two columns)

So what that tells you is that if you have beaten M4 Normal you have at least a 50% chance of being capable of beating M4 Savage. Your chances of beating 1-3 are likely even higher than that, because we can't get data on those.

(For context, anyone that hasn't beaten M4 Normal is obviously not actually playing the game or didn't beat Dawntrail yet. It's highly unlikely you would be actively playing and not have beat it)

This is, interesting in its own right.

It may be that I'm missing some nuance or relationship, and please fill int he gaps and correct me as may be possible but, what I would be interest in is....

• Taking just that 13.9% that have the Val mount we are interested in as the 100% of our interested sample...
• of that group what % have achievements public so that we can test for the achievement for clearing M1 savage? (Should be easy, just test for the first achievement in the game. We will take that as our new 100% of our sample group.)
• of that group how many now have the achievement for clearing M1 savage?

Its not an ideal. But its the best we can do.

As for P, we just cant use that data, both savage and extreme, you can now do it unsynced. So its irrelevant. As it is I don't even count Extremes even if they were done synced, once they are no longer High-end and the gearing is OP.

@Oscarlet, (I wish I could ping you) how did you get at that data? It be interested in the data to try and do it myself, as long as it wasn't character anonymised, because then its impossible.

[Jeeqbit]

what % have achievements public so that we can test for the achievement for clearing M1 savage?

I'm not about to scour through thousands of lodestone profiles for you. The figures came from FFXIVCollect, which is a website people use to either lookup others or lookup themselves to see what they have collected. Usually, this is because they are collectors. Collectors usually have achievements visible, but not always.

of that group how many now have the achievement for clearing M1 savage?

The fact that, consistently, more people have the Savage mounts than the Extreme mounts should say something. The amount of people with the Extreme mounts only seems to get higher once the Extreme trials are "easy" to unsync quickly ie. HW and SB.

As for P, we just cant use that data, both savage and extreme, you can now do it unsynced. So its irrelevant.

Not quite. Just because you can unsync it doesn't mean all of the mechanics are irrelevant yet. Often unsyncing doesn't become common until it's old enough to where the mechanics don't matter. Parties struggle to fill for old content if they have to bother with mechanics.

Obviously unsyncing will have happened to a degree, but ultimately, the statistic on the % that have the savage mount is the same. Even more have the Valigarmanda mount than the one they can unsync for. Which really suggests that a lot of people just see Extremes as a joke as I said.

They could grab some of these old Extreme mounts but they don't even bother, yet they do grab the Savage ones.

how did you get at that data?

The first set of data was from FFXIVCollect. The second set of data was from Lucky Bancho, a JP player who scans the lodestone to figure out the number of active characters and other stats like this. I can't help you with the data because what they do is very complicated, but you can take a look at their latest data

https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/archives/58771096.html

The most solid data there is the actual clear rates being either around 50% or 33% depending on the world. This is out of people who have the M4 Normal minion. Which should be almost anyone that has done M4 once a week for a few weeks. It's a statistical way of saying the content probably isn't as hard as some people are perceiving it.

[Gurgeh]

.....

Thanks Jeeq. It was always going to be ropey for me to draw any conclusions from the data even if available. Really you need to just analyse number of clears person A has in X and number of clears in y. A mount might single out those rare peolple who do not go onto savage. If they had done, they wouldn't have had time for the mount.
Thanks Jeeq. I might have a look at collect thingy.

[Astronis]

(For context, anyone that hasn't beaten M4 Normal is obviously not actually playing the game or didn't beat Dawntrail yet. It's highly unlikely you would be actively playing and not have beat it)

This isn't true. Likely enough that most people who are actively playing and have finished Dawntrail have also beaten M4 (though doing so once only gives them a 1/8 chance of having the minion), but every active player who finished Dawntrail hasn't also beaten M4. Some of those active players are spending all their time playing in the Gold Saucer or decorating houses. People really do overestimate how casual some casual but active players are.

[Jeeqbit]

This isn't true. Likely enough that most people who are actively playing and have finished Dawntrail have also beaten M4 (though doing so once only gives them a 1/8 chance of having the minion), but every active player who finished Dawntrail hasn't also beaten M4. Some of those active players are spending all their time playing in the Gold Saucer or decorating houses. People really do overestimate how casual some casual but active players are.

Either way, they don't seem to "do content" much so wouldn't try Savage even if they are capable of it. The minion drops from savage, too, so a savage player ignoring the normal version is covered.

[Mawlzy]

This isn't true. Likely enough that most people who are actively playing and have finished Dawntrail have also beaten M4 (though doing so once only gives them a 1/8 chance of having the minion), but every active player who finished Dawntrail hasn't also beaten M4. Some of those active players are spending all their time playing in the Gold Saucer or decorating houses. People really do overestimate how casual some casual but active players are.

I think it's quite possible that a significant fraction of players that have completed DT have not cleared M4. It's not just a question of them being more interested in decorating houses. There's an entire sub-community that avoids current tier raids, either because they dislike such group content or because they simply have no reason to do so. I suspect this is compounded in DT because the story associated with the raids is so weak.

[OgruMogru]

Surely more people have the savage mount because it is guaranteed to drop every time as opposed to extremes where you either grind for 99 tokens [and wait for the option to exchange them for a mount] or rely on the miniscule odds of even seeing the mount drop. I do exes enough times to get everyone in the party a weapon coffer and then move on - usually zero mounts even appear in that time.