The Formula won't change

[Erzaa]

Devs cater to casuals too much and I think casuals have more casual content to do than an average casual player will ever be able to complete

I'm curious... How do you read the patch notes for the upcoming 7.1 and come to the conclusion that the game caters to casuals?

Us casuals, all we're getting is 3 hours of story, and 45min per week to repeat ad nauseum the same 24 man raid, at best. Raiders are getting the new Chaotic, a new Ultimate, the next Unreal and a new Extreme trial.

And I assure you, it's very possible for casuals to complete all the casual content. I know, because I've done it. From ARR to DT, it takes around 3,5 - 4 years to complete every single piece of casual content, and then you're left with FATEs and Hunts.

All I have to look forward to for the next 4 months is attempting my solo Deep Dungeon runs.

In my personal opinion, they need to tone back on all the endgame hardcore raids and give casuals more interesting and fun things to do.

[Volgia]

In my personal opinion, they need to tone back on all the endgame hardcore raids and give casuals more interesting and fun things to do.

I want them to do both. Why skew one group for another? They need to tone up on all content.

I feel like going into deep dungeons, and I mean getting all those achievements can be more hardcore than doing extremes or that new chaotic raid.

[Erzaa]

I want them to do both. Why skew one group for another? They need to tone up on all content.

I feel like going into deep dungeons, and I mean getting all those achievements can be more hardcore than doing extremes or that new chaotic raid.

Apologies. I probably should've qualified... Temporarily. If they lack the resources to do both at the same time, they should temporarily tone back the endgame hardcore raids to give everyone else more fun things to do.

I didn't meant to suggest they stop catering to hardcore raiders.

Alternatively, they should just go ahead and put up the necessary resources and funding to make more things for everyone.

[Kohashi]

Us casuals, all we're getting is 3 hours of story, and 45min per week to repeat ad nauseum the same 24 man raid, at best. Raiders are getting the new Chaotic, a new Ultimate, the next Unreal and a new Extreme trial.

There seems to be a huge misconception of what casual actually means. There is no reason not to try all that the game has to offer, including EX, savage, and ultimates. Anything can be cleared if you are willing to invest enough time into doing so. The only factor that sets apart a casual to a hardcore player is the amount of time they are willing to invest.

Plenty of groups out there that tackle "hardcore" content in a casual manner. Plenty of groups out there that are comprised of very new, and with a very basic role understanding of what "hard" content means. The only thing that is missing is the willingness to attempt it.

While varied content is a good thing, those challenges are part of the game's diversity.

[Jeeqbit]

There seems to be a huge misconception of what casual actually means.

While true, it is used in different contexts:
- Casual in the sense time availability. You can do even high-end content casually.
- Casual in the amount of attention provided to content and the amount of research and practice done.

For the first case, story content is literally designed to be cleared in 1-2 pulls normally. Which is respectful of limited time availability. Whereas high-end content is rarely progged through that quickly unless it's something like Innocence or Byakko. Thus it is correct to call story content "casual content".

For the second case, a lot of people who do high-end content casually (not saying everyone) don't invest the time into preparation like watching guides (perhaps due to lack of time) or lack the attention (perhaps due to getting home from work and not having eaten and being exhausted, depending on what work they do).

Now there are casual players that do high-end content but are really good at it, but often I find there was once a time when they were not casual and this is what allowed them to understand the game enough to be so good at it. Even so, them being able to commit to a static hinges on if they can be available at a consistent time each week, which not everyone can (for example random shift work), or they need to save their brainpower for work they do.

I do think a certain percentage of players who rule out high-end duties are not actually doing it because of being casual players though. I think there are a lot of cases where this is a cover for what is actually anxiety or a mistaken belief that the content is more hardcore than it actually is (ie. thinking extremes are super sweaty hardcore content when they are practical to PF).

[Kohashi]

While true, it is used in different contexts:
- Casual in the sense time availability. You can do even high-end content casually.
- Casual in the amount of attention provided to content and the amount of research and practice done.

For the first case, story content is literally designed to be cleared in 1-2 pulls normally. Which is respectful of limited time availability. Whereas high-end content is rarely progged through that quickly unless it's something like Innocence or Byakko. Thus it is correct to call story content "casual content".

For the second case, a lot of people who do high-end content casually (not saying everyone) don't invest the time into preparation like watching guides (perhaps due to lack of time) or lack the attention (perhaps due to getting home from work and not having eaten and being exhausted, depending on what work they do).

Now there are casual players that do high-end content but are really good at it, but often I find there was once a time when they were not casual and this is what allowed them to understand the game enough to be so good at it. Even so, them being able to commit to a static hinges on if they can be available at a consistent time each week, which not everyone can (for example random shift work), or they need to save their brainpower for work they do.

I do think a certain percentage of players who rule out high-end duties are not actually doing it because of being casual players though. I think there are a lot of cases where this is a cover for what is actually anxiety or a mistaken belief that the content is more hardcore than it actually is (ie. thinking extremes are super sweaty hardcore content when they are practical to PF).

Let me say this.

If you are willing to sit in a forum and provide your feedback or sit in the game logged in at all, you might as well just try those as well.

Progression comes with time and repetition.

There is nowhere stated that X fight should be cleared in Y amount of time or pulls. There are a LOT of groups that prioritize fun, banter, and the experience overall over the clear itself. Sure there are sweaty hardcore groups but those are very few and far in between.

The bottom line is, that some just limit themselves only to have a reason to complain and cry that the world is against them when in fact the game offers a lot of diversity and the only thing you need to do is to take action and find/make a group that suits your needs and schedule.

[ovIm]

There is nowhere stated that X fight should be cleared in Y amount of time or pulls. There are a LOT of groups that prioritize fun, banter, and the experience overall over the clear itself. Sure there are sweaty hardcore groups but those are very few and far in between.

I see more sweaty tryhard groups than chill casual ones personally. The chill ones are far and few between, from my own personal experience. There are a lot of people with a certain dedication and ambition when it comes to raiding.

Aside from that, maybe its also that this kind of raid encounters are just not everyones cup of tea? Because see here:

in fact the game offers a lot of diversity.

No it does not. Most content is "singular room with boss". (read - most, not all. I know there are exceptions, but the next non room with boss instanced content is over half a year away for when field operations drops.)

Trials? Singular room with boss.
Storymode/Savage Raid? Singular room with boss.
Chaotic? Singular room with boss, again.

Dungeons and 24 mans do at least change it up with some trash in between, but mostly, FF14 is bosses.

[Kohashi]

I see more sweaty tryhard groups than chill casual ones personally. The chill ones are far and few between, from my own personal experience. There are a lot of people with a certain dedication and ambition when it comes to raiding.

Aside from that, maybe its also that this kind of raid encounters are just not everyones cup of tea? Because see here:



No it does not. Most content is "singular room with boss". (read - most, not all. I know there are exceptions, but the next non room with boss instanced content is over half a year away for when field operations drops.)

Trials? Singular room with boss.
Storymode/Savage Raid? Singular room with boss.
Chaotic? Singular room with boss, again.

Dungeons and 24 mans do at least change it up with some trash in between, but mostly, FF14 is bosses.

That is a classic confirmation bias.

As long as you know what you are looking for, finding the right group is 75% already sorted. There are discord channels/communities/servers that you can join to find such groups. If you end up in a sweaty group then you either got unlucky or you didn't do your homework properly. It takes 5 minutes to ask the person recruiting what the goals are, as well as what the general atmosphere and consensus regarding the prog and pace.

Also if you argue that the game should make a 180-degree shift just because you find the singular room with the boss, not your cup of tea, then perhaps this game is actually not for you. Diversity doesn't have to be unidimensional and "singular room with boss" is how the core game design is.

No game should ever cater to people who just hate/dislike the game itself and the design. Some games did try that and failed abysmally.

[ovIm]

That is a classic confirmation bias.

yes, that it is indeed, my friend. that is what you and me both experience, I would say.

Also if you argue that the game should make a 180-degree shift just because you find the singular room with the boss, not your cup of tea, then perhaps this game is actually not for you. Diversity doesn't have to be unidimensional and "singular room with boss" is how the core game design is.

No game should ever cater to people who just hate/dislike the game itself and the design. Some games did try that and failed abysmally.

Except the game used to be more than this, and now it is not.
ARR started with a relic grind that brought you all over content that existed in 2.0, Heavensward had relic grind start with 3.1. ARR began deep dungeons, Stormblood brought us Field Operations.
Raids in ARR und HW still had some trash in them. Dungeons were less homogenized and became more so over time.

You don't get to act like there has not already been a 180-degree shift to solely room with boss content and ask people to leave instead of voicing their valid criticisms. If the game changed and evolved once, it can still change and evolve.

The content that was not room with bosses just slowly disappeared, and people who were here for other content have a right to ask for what they used to receive.

[Jeeqbit]

The bottom line is, that some just limit themselves only to have a reason to complain and cry that the world is against them when in fact the game offers a lot of diversity and the only thing you need to do is to take action and find/make a group that suits your needs and schedule.

That's really how I see it honestly. At the very, very least it's worth casual players trying: Extreme, Unreal or the first and second Savage floors. They are usually pretty realistic to prog through in PF (I mean depending on the tier, but I even got through the much fearmongered P10S in PF and helped lots of people clear it so there's that).

For anyone wondering about the Chaos Raid's difficulty, I think there's no reason not to jump into a prog party as a casual player. They can't make such large-scale content too difficult. They said themselves it's like Extreme or first floor savage difficulty. Which is just like I said above - very realistic to prog through casually in PF. They said that it can be done with 12 players, which suggests the other 12 can be somewhat clueless as long as half the raid knows what they're doing at any given moment. I remember when Yoshi-P pulled it, I just saw stuff like a donut AoE... it probably won't be that bad.

That said, I do think there is a need for content like Field Operations and relic grinds to work on casually. Which is why I'm glad we're getting one. It was conspicuous by its absence in Endwalker due to how much life it brought to Shadowbringers, because this sort of content brings people together who do all levels of content and it feels great and social.