Please go back to 2 new dungeons per patch.

[Doragan]

I'll start by how things were, and how things are now.

During ARR, we had 3 dungeons per patch, and patches dropped around 3 months of each other.

In Heavensward, it went to 2 per patch. Same amount of time.

In Stormblood, it went to 1.5 (2 every even patch) -- It started to get a bit samey and boring, but I dealt with it.

Shadowbringers onwards (to today), it has been one single story dungeon per patch. The time between patches went to 4~ months.

I'll be blunt: Running the expert roulette on the daily has become a complete chore because its always the same dungeons. the same music. the same enemies. For 4-8 months. It's boring, and it didn't used to be like this.

That's probably the number one complaint I used to hear from casual friends since ShB dropped, and it more or less has stopped because they stopped playing the game entirely.

Personally, I do not mind the reused environment and music with a different touch, pattern, bosses, enemies.. I used to love seeing hm dungeons because it put a spin on past dungeons. It allowed us to see more than what we were allowed to see when we visited the first time. I think it was really cool, and it probably ensured it didn't take a lot of resources to begin with. All perfectly fine.

If patches are going to take more time than they used to, please don't let the dailies duties be the repeated nightmare they currently are, and give us back the variety in ex roulette. I used to log in just to do them daily because they were new and fresh, and wouldn't overstay their welcome due to the patch schedule, now I just want to never touch these dungeons ever again due to burnout. HM dungeons from Norvrandt would go so hard. Just think about it.
Thank you.

[Fatch38]

what's the point of getting back to two dungeons ? they will still be boring and rewards nothing relevant to character progression (outside of tomes). i'd rather have variant dungeon be the structure to all dungeons coming instead.

and even adding 1 more dungeon again won't change expert dr getting old really fast.

[Doragan]

what's the point of getting back to two dungeons ? they will still be boring and rewards nothing relevant to character progression (outside of tomes). i'd rather have variant dungeon be the structure to all dungeons coming instead.

Tomes are absolutely relevant to character progression, that's the point of expert roulette. You aint doing this for gil. That's the most efficient way of getting tomes in a low amount of time, and if I am to run this multiple times a week, I want something fresh, not doing Alexandria or Scarborough until April 2025. Like it used to be, really. Not boring. It did start getting boring with Stormblood shafting one dungeon every odd patches, and now it has become samey, tired and elongated with the current patch release schedule. Fourfold.

As much as I would like Variant Dungeons to become the norm, that will never happen for expert roulette specifically. Add to that we only got three of these in EW -- They're their own thing for now. If they appear in the roulette, I would be happy too.

[Fatch38]

Tomes are absolutely relevant to character progression, that's the point of expert roulette.

then you totally agree with my point being than outside of tomes there is nothing good in those. and if you use expert for tomes you should clearly do hunt (better, faster and give you way more materias), so you clearly make my point valid. dungeons are boring and are useless to character progression.

[Doragan]

then you totally agree with my point being than outside of tomes there is nothing good in those. and if you use expert for tomes you should clearly do hunt (better, faster and give you way more materias), so you clearly make my point valid. dungeons are boring and are useless to character progression.

That's not the issue and what I'm trying to discuss here. If you don't want to do dungeons, that's good for you and all. Do your hunts. I want the variety and freshness we used to have in the ex roulette. It isn't useless to character progression either since you're there for the tomes, that's it.

I want to do the expert roulette and it not being same 2 dungeons over and over for 8 months.

It would really be simpler to just put all level 100 dungeons into Expert roulette. I reached a point where I did level 90 roulette instead of Expert at the end of EW, and it was so much better getting dungeons from 2 years prior that I hadn't done for a while than just The Lunar Subterrane for 9 months.

A different, IMHO better solution would be to use the dungeons we already have for expert roulette. We can scale content up to max level already (see unreal trials), so it should be possible to, say, chose 1 dungeon from each expansion every tuesday, autoscale it to max level and push it into expert roulette. That way, older dungeons stay relevant for far longer, and people run them more.

Frankly, yeah, that could definitely solve it. It may have a "crystal tower roulette" effect in the long run though. Perhaps not with only 4 people involved, I can see it working too!

[Fatch38]

That's not the issue and what I'm trying to discuss here. If you don't want to do dungeons, that's good for you and all. Do your hunts. I want the variety and freshness we used to have in the ex roulette. It isn't useless to character progression either since you're there for the tomes, that's it.

here since ARR and expert always have been a coin flip between two boring dungeons, take your nostalgia gogles off, ex dr never had any freshness past week 1. and in what ex dr make your char progress outside of tomes ? the gear in it is dead on arrival (only the first two dungeons at the start of an expansion does it), and materias aren't a char progression. soooooo ?

[ZephyrMenodora]

what's the point of getting back to two dungeons ? they will still be boring and rewards nothing relevant to character progression (outside of tomes). i'd rather have variant dungeon be the structure to all dungeons coming instead.

and even adding 1 more dungeon again won't change expert dr getting old really fast.

An expert Roulette of 4 dungeons is better than when we get to the point we only have 2.

[Valence]

what's the point of getting back to two dungeons ? they will still be boring and rewards nothing relevant to character progression (outside of tomes). i'd rather have variant dungeon be the structure to all dungeons coming instead.

and even adding 1 more dungeon again won't change expert dr getting old really fast.

It used to feel better but I don't disagree with you on principle. The problem is that everything is scripted and always the same. Back in HW/SB (but especially HW) we could pretend to have a bit more variation depending on the player skill, resource management, and just jobs that were a lot more engaging to play in, but dungeons on their own remained the same old formula.

The variant idea is cool and all until you start wondering how it could work in a daily roulette. You'd have to remove the puzzles and riddles unless you want it to just turn into the new Totorak where solving the riddles on autopilot just becomes that extreme chore you have to do between actual pve gameplay. Riddles and solutions to explore and find are very good for first time experiences, but very bad for replayability. And people would probably just go for the simplest path with no riddle all the time anyway. So what's left then? Different paths, essentially, and I do think they should consider this for most dungeons actually. Just making 2 or 3 paths between bosses, perhaps variations in the amount of bosses or how mob packs behave, etc. Path could be chosen at random by the roulette so that there is no meta to go through. I'd like them to do something like that, but I'm not on exactly copium for it since Yoshida said very recently that they're happy with their dungeon formula and there is a reason it stays like this (productivity and dev resources allegedly).

then you totally agree with my point being than outside of tomes there is nothing good in those. and if you use expert for tomes you should clearly do hunt (better, faster and give you way more materias), so you clearly make my point valid. dungeons are boring and are useless to character progression.

Hunts are the most boring and tedious stuff I've done in this game beyond fate farming. Please no. Don't remove content to just tell people to do something totally unrelated. If I played for efficiency, I'd do hunts, but I don't and there is a reason for it. I'd rather have them actually work into improving flawed content. I've had enough deletion of job systems and whatnot just because "it was flawed".

[Kuroka]

what's the point of getting back to two dungeons ? they will still be boring and rewards nothing relevant to character progression (outside of tomes). i'd rather have variant dungeon be the structure to all dungeons coming instead.

and even adding 1 more dungeon again won't change expert dr getting old really fast.

It would for some - like me.

Id rather look at two differently painted corridors then one new and one for - by now - more then half a year. I also liked revisiting old places...

It would really be simpler to just put all level 100 dungeons into Expert roulette. I reached a point where I did level 90 roulette instead of Expert at the end of EW, and it was so much better getting dungeons from 2 years prior that I hadn't done for a while than just The Lunar Subterrane for 9 months.

Oh god no, it would only draw us into Alexandria as its the lowest common dungeon....


And yeah hunts are basically dead do me - join the external tools based community or youre excluded, be lucky and be there, drop everything when they do a hunt or miss out.

[ovIm]

I'll be blunt: Running the expert roulette on the daily has become a complete chore because its always the same dungeons. the same music. the same enemies. For 4-8 months. It's boring, and it didn't used to be like this.

A different, IMHO better solution would be to use the dungeons we already have for expert roulette. We can scale content up to max level already (see unreal trials), so it should be possible to, say, chose 1 dungeon from each expansion every tuesday, autoscale it to max level and push it into expert roulette. That way, older dungeons stay relevant for far longer, and people run them more.

then you totally agree with my point being than outside of tomes there is nothing good in those. and if you use expert for tomes you should clearly do hunt (better, faster and give you way more materias), so you clearly make my point valid. dungeons are boring and are useless to character progression.

Gods I hate the "just do hunts" argument. Hunts are not only dependent on spawntimers, there is also a community of people organising and doing hunt trains. So while you can just queue for an expert roulette freely at any time, you need to wait for things before you can participate in hunting. Hunting is an alternative to expert roulette, not a full on replacement, and vice versa.