When can we expect the first PvP content?

[Doho]

i can't wait to scrap with the most dangerous game! PvE is awesome in its own right.. but PvP ohohohooo I can't wait.

[Alhanelem]

No, in the case of PvP, it really does matter. Skills being adjusted to be balanced in PvP more often then not kills them for PvE.

I'm with Kiri, I'm dreading PvP.

That's a load of crap and a massive assumption. Also, in FFXI, modifications to accomodate PvP are in effect only during PvP. They had 100% totally zero effect on PvE.

Regardless, even if you were right, it STILL doesn't hurt you if you choose not to participate in it. SE's designers and especially YoshiP are not stupid. They will be capable of introducing it without adversely affecting PvE's mechanics.

Yes, they can be, doesn't mean they will be. Remember who developed this game.

Well, it was originally developed by some of the same people who brought us a certain other game that had PvP accomodations only affect PvP, so I don't see your point.

They are in a particularly good position now as they can design it around the current skillls, and also develop the future skills knowing how they can be used in either circumstance. the current set of skills I already forsee making decent PvP- yet they work just fine (mostly) for PvE already. Fears of "ruining PvE" IMO are unfounded.

[Kowen]

Paladin has been added since him, and that Job is still in need of proper balancing.

Also, what does playing other MMOs have to do with anything? He had his team play World of Warcraft, which is the best proof that you can't balance PvP and PvE skills.

He's a veteran of Ultima Online and DAoC (which is well known for its large scale PvP). It's also pretty standard for other MMOs to balance skills separately for PvE and I'd be really surprised if XIV didn't.

It's not out yet, and like others said, if you don't like it then you can choose not to participate in it. It's already been mentioned that PvP rewards won't be better than PvE rewards, so you don't have to.

[Yucie]

That's a load of crap and a massive assumption. Also, in FFXI, modifications to accomodate PvP are in effect only during PvP. They had 100% totally zero effect on PvE.

That first part is true. However, do you know WHY they didn't have any effect on PvE?

Because in FFXI the PvP wasn't too prevalent and more often than not people didn't have a single f*** to give about it. Instead, it was extremely instanced and limited to like.. what? One or two zones especially made for it?

In other games like WoW, which really is a prime example of what you can't segregate and balance skills for PvP/PvE, the PvP is EVERYWHERE. Open world, arena, battlegrounds, that valley in WotLK with vehicles and stuff. The PvP is an integral part of the game and exists pretty much wherever you can take a step. And, to my knowledge, Blizzard still hasn't figured out a good balance for those skills, which is why different classes are always OP or UP.

Chances are the PvP in XIV will be almost identical in concept to what FFXI had, aside from a formal arena - which means it'll be fine on it's own, but nobody will give a damn about it.

[Alhanelem]

That first part is true. However, do you know WHY they didn't have any effect on PvE?

Because in FFXI the PvP wasn't too prevalent and more often than not people didn't have a single f*** to give about it.

Level of participation is irrelevant. Even if 10x as many people played it, there are no significant rewards, PvP balance is seperated from PvE balance, and PvE and PvP participants cannot interact with eachother at all. The impact on PvE in XI would be zero whether 10 people or 1000 people played it.

Chances are the PvP in XIV will be almost identical in concept to what FFXI had, aside from a formal arena - which means it'll be fine on it's own, but nobody will give a damn about it.

Actually the PvP they've already announced is relevant to the game- not just some generic arena. Despite this, it's still isolated from PvE and won't interfere with your god given right not to participate in it. You won't be punished for not doing it, nor will those who are doing it be more lavishly rewarded than you.

The biggest concern I have with PvP at the moment is simply latency. It wasn't a major problem in XI PvP, but it could be a problem here simply because it seems worse in XIV.

the PvP is EVERYWHERE. Open world, arena, battlegrounds, that valley in WotLK with vehicles and stuff

They have no plans for open world PvP- no random PKing is going to take place in this game. You will not ever be forced to participate against your will.

[Onisake]

Paladin has been added since him, and that Job is still in need of proper balancing.

Also, what does playing other MMOs have to do with anything? He had his team play World of Warcraft, which is the best proof that you can't balance PvP and PvE skills.

Almost always, skills that are 'nerfed' in PvP were also somewhat broken in PvE. bringing them into PvP brought this to light. I personally have never seen an ability nerfed in PvP that was not also broken in PvE. so when i see people complain about it, their credibility decreases in my eyes.

Tanks are notoriously hard to balance for PvP. unlike PvE you can't force anyone to attack you, and tanks are meant to take damage. thinking long term, paladin as it is makes sense. i think you just have a beef with PvP environments. if tanks do too much damage, they are inherently broken because they have high survivibility. but if damage is too low they will just be ignored. PvP games like league of legends balance this well, because most tanks have high amounts of CC or big bursts on long cool downs or snowballing sustained DPS. PLD, as it is, is currently is balanced for PvE. i agree it is the class that needs the most amount of work. but for all intents and purposes it functions fine. it just needs some usability tweaks. For things that matter i still see PLD requests over WAR. so overall i feel PLD is in a good place in the hands of the right players. PLDs skill curve is definitely higher than WAR.

PvP balancing can be done easily: as soon as you enter the field there is a global buff (possibly specific to class) to level the field. for damage, the biggest factor is level. so capping levels is a must (unless the formulation changes). easiest thing to do is make a buff that changes this value in the calculation to a static number, so only stats affect damage received and damage done. of course sometimes an ability itself is broken, so a global buff will not help with this. so the ability needs to be adjusted.

Playing other MMOs gives a very good basis for figuring out what good PvP is and what bad PvP is. so it has EVERYTHING to do with it. if they don't do research, you can expect the PvP/PvE balancing to be a great deal worse.

really i swear some people do not think things through. . .

[Onisake]

Level of participation is irrelevant. Even if 10x as many people played it, there are no significant rewards, PvP balance is seperated from PvE balance, and PvE and PvP participants cannot interact with eachother at all. The impact on PvE in XI would be zero whether 10 people or 1000 people played it.

Except two clases dominated FFXI in PvP: Paladin and Redmage. more so after the shield buffs, rampart/sentinel buffs, and auto refresh. a decently geared PLD could solo 2 DDs. a well geared paladin could solo 3. I personally was an extremely well geared PLD. if i went in PLD/RDM i could take on 3 or 4 DD classes. healers made things tricky, but you just had to kill them first. between phalanx, shield blocks, sentinel and SS DDs did almost no damage.

Actually the PvP they've already announced is relevant to the game- not just some generic arena. Despite this, it's still isolated from PvE and won't interfere with your god given right not to participate in it. You won't be punished for not doing it, nor will those who are doing it be more lavishly rewarded than you.

I suspect rewards will be seals, or some other type of currency. possibly materia, food/temporary buffs or town gear.

the funny thing is a lot of people, especially younger western gamers, confuse opportunity cost with punishment.

The biggest concern I have with PvP at the moment is simply latency. It wasn't a major problem in XI PvP, but it could be a problem here simply because it seems worse in XIV.

agreed. w/e they are doing to the servers is supposed to fix it though.

They have no plans for open world PvP- no random PKing is going to take place in this game. You will not ever be forced to participate against your will.

I tried to pull buffalo to the fishing bots near bald knoll once. i ended up pulling him right into a bunch of those leve grinding bots. was a good time. PKing is possible if you are creative. I saw someone in Beta TP a newbie to a mor Dhona when they asked for a town TP. they, somehow, convinced the newbie that they were in a town, and he set his HP in mor dhona. >.> poor bastard.

[Mishakai]

I love me some good PVP. Yeah I know traditionally FF is a PVE franchise, but I can only fight scripted encounters so many times before I burn out. Adding some PVP into the mix is the perfect way to change things up for me.

[Yucie]

Except two clases dominated FFXI in PvP: Paladin and Redmage. more so after the shield buffs, rampart/sentinel buffs, and auto refresh. a decently geared PLD could solo 2 DDs. a well geared paladin could solo 3. I personally was an extremely well geared PLD. if i went in PLD/RDM i could take on 3 or 4 DD classes. healers made things tricky, but you just had to kill them first. between phalanx, shield blocks, sentinel and SS DDs did almost no damage.



I suspect rewards will be seals, or some other type of currency. possibly materia, food/temporary buffs or town gear.

the funny thing is a lot of people, especially younger western gamers, confuse opportunity cost with punishment.



agreed. w/e they are doing to the servers is supposed to fix it though.



I tried to pull buffalo to the fishing bots near bald knoll once. i ended up pulling him right into a bunch of those leve grinding bots. was a good time. PKing is possible if you are creative. I saw someone in Beta TP a newbie to a mor Dhona when they asked for a town TP. they, somehow, convinced the newbie that they were in a town, and he set his HP in mor dhona. >.> poor bastard.

PLD/RDM became even more broken with the introduction of Atonement.

[Alhanelem]

pssh. I was always more afraid of SAM/RNGs than RDMs.

And I played a mean PUP. In fact the pet jobs in XI in general are good enough in PvP to make up for them tending not to be favored in PvE lol.

Oh, how I miss my pet jobs...