What are your thoughts on 2.0's summoning system?

[Ksenia]

I don't know what he is talking about with the 'recent cheapening' of Summons. He's right, they are an FF staple but they were obtainable from the original uses. Odin has been in several games and once you obtained the Odin esper/ materia etc you had Odin.

If they want to make certain Primals exclusive to this system I don't have a problem with that but I'd also like to see certain Summons that you build points toward and when you have enough you can use them to call a summon. A summoning Esper that is built to become a one use consumable. I'd also like to see all Summons add a cut scene to our room library once it is activated.

[Zantetsuken]

I don't know what he is talking about with the 'recent cheapening' of Summons. He's right, they are an FF staple but they were obtainable from the original uses. Odin has been in several games and once you obtained the Odin esper/ materia etc you had Odin.

If they want to make certain Primals exclusive to this system I don't have a problem with that but I'd also like to see certain Summons that you build points toward and when you have enough you can use them to call a summon. A summoning Esper that is built to become a one use consumable. I'd also like to see all Summons add a cut scene to our room library once it is activated.

I think people misunderstand (due to translation possibly) what "Too easy to obtain" is referring to.

Yoshi is speaking of it in a global FF sense.

In virtually every single player FF games. Summons were rare and difficult to obtain by the general population of that WORLD.

Think back on any FF game (sans 11). Other than the party of heroes. How often did you see anyone else with summoning magic?

Goblez, and the residents of Mist in FFIV had it, Kefka could summon FFVI (using Magicite), Seymour and several others could in FFX.. We knew the residents of Replito in FFIII could use it.

Notice something?

I each respective FF world, the only NPCs who could use summoning magic fell into two categories: 1) Main Villains or 2) Small hidden communities dedicated exclusively to studying it. Bottom line, summoning magic was pretty rare to have for your average inhabitant of a FF world.

Now, of those... How many did you ever see summon Ifrit? How about Leviathan, or Shiva?

Not only was summoning magic rare, but the the iconic FF summons (Primals) were exclusive to one party in the world, the player's party.

When Yoshi-P is talking about Summoning magic being too common and everyone with their own Ifrit walking around he is speaking directly about FFXI.

His plan is to retain the uniqueness and power of the Iconic FF summons, by restricting them to one per world in FFXIV. And that fits well with the FF tradition.

[Babydoll]

I think people misunderstand (due to translation possibly) what "Too easy to obtain" is referring to.

Yoshi is speaking of it in a global FF sense.

In virtually every single player FF games. Summons were rare and difficult to obtain by the general population of that WORLD.

Think back on any FF game (sans 11). Other than the party of heroes. How often did you see anyone else with summoning magic?

Goblez, and the residents of Mist in FFIV had it, Kefka could summon FFVI (using Magicite), Seymour and several others could in FFX.. We knew the residents of Replito in FFIII could use it.

Notice something?

I each respective FF world, the only NPCs who could use summoning magic fell into two categories: 1) Main Villains or 2) Small hidden communities dedicated exclusively to studying it. Bottom line, summoning magic was pretty rare to have for your average inhabitant of a FF world.

Now, of those... How many did you ever see summon Ifrit? How about Leviathan, or Shiva?

Not only was summoning magic rare, but the the iconic FF summons (Primals) were exclusive to one party in the world, the player's party.

When Yoshi-P is talking about Summoning magic being too common and everyone with their own Ifrit walking around he is speaking directly about FFXI.

His plan is to retain the uniqueness and power of the Iconic FF summons, by restricting them to one per world in FFXIV. And that fits well with the FF tradition.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you...but in nearly all the FF's party members could summon summons. Rydia, Yuna, in FF7 and 8 the whole PT, in FF12 you could summon it and become to summon. In FF6 you could summon stuff on any character also. The summons weren't that hard to obtain ^^; In FF12 though they were...haha the fights were a pain but a lot of fun!

I don't like the whole "one shot" anything either, that is kind of silly and takes the fun out of bosses and stuff. Is it really worth it to use in PVP too? It would be funny I guess lol but nothing that epic.

FFXI I think they did a good job, at first anyway. They really used to make you work for the avatars...there was only a very small amount of us summoners in 2003 - 2005. I wrote a guide on it back in the day at gamefaqs But then when they made it easier and everyone and their mom leveled it for the wyrms...yeah that is when it felt like it lost its novelty.

I really hope he does add summoner job...I know a lot of people are expecting it and if it does not come out I also will leave...I been waiting for it ._.

[Zantetsuken]

Maybe I am misunderstanding you...but in nearly all the FF's party members could summon summons. Rydia, Yuna, in FF7 and 8 the whole PT, in FF12 you could summon it and become to summon. In FF6 you could summon stuff on any character also. The summons weren't that hard to obtain ^^; In FF12 though they were...haha the fights were a pain but a lot of fun!

I don't like the whole "one shot" anything either, that is kind of silly and takes the fun out of bosses and stuff. Is it really worth it to use in PVP too? It would be funny I guess lol but nothing that epic.

FFXI I think they did a good job, at first anyway. They really used to make you work for the avatars...there was only a very small amount of us summoners in 2003 - 2005. I wrote a guide on it back in the day at gamefaqs But then when they made it easier and everyone and their mom leveled it for the wyrms...yeah that is when it felt like it lost its novelty.

I really hope he does add summoner job...I know a lot of people are expecting it and if it does not come out I also will leave...I been waiting for it ._.

The point Yoshi was making is that the summons were rare because there was only one (Ifrit) in every FF world and it was exclusive to the player-controlled party.

FFXI broke this with every Summoner walking around with their own Ifrit. (ie, there were many 'Ifrits' in FFXI) -- and even though the lore kind of explained it, the overall feeling was that the power of Ifrit was diminished by turning him into a breed of pet for people.

Yoshi wants there to be only one Ifrit, and he wants him to be very powerful.

Other lesser summons like Carbuncle and Cait Sith could replicate themselves and be used for a SMN job in this game, but for the big summons, there will be only one version at any given point.

[XxOstiaxX]

The point Yoshi was making is that the summons were rare because there was only one (Ifrit) in every FF world and it was exclusive to the player-controlled party.

FFXI broke this with every Summoner walking around with their own Ifrit. (ie, there were many 'Ifrits' in FFXI) -- and even though the lore kind of explained it, the overall feeling was that the power of Ifrit was diminished by turning him into a breed of pet for people.

Yoshi wants there to be only one Ifrit, and he wants him to be very powerful.

Other lesser summons like Carbuncle and Cait Sith could replicate themselves and be used for a SMN job in this game, but for the big summons, there will be only one version at any given point.

There where multiple versions of the same summon in VI, the ifrit esper that your party encounters is not the only ifrit in existance in that game, same for shiva and everybody else, atleast on that game, Espers(summons) where more of a clan/race than an individual. As far as XIV i would really like to see the classic summons being part of the summoner class, for that is what has made the summoner class so iconic, i really don see the logic in "Sorry but you know that class that really is above and beyond every other similar class in MMO'S ? as an iconic and really well lored versed class ? yeah we gonna scrap that and just give you random animals as summons"

[Ksenia]

The point Yoshi was making is that the summons were rare because there was only one (Ifrit) in every FF world and it was exclusive to the player-controlled party.

FFXI broke this with every Summoner walking around with their own Ifrit. (ie, there were many 'Ifrits' in FFXI) -- and even though the lore kind of explained it, the overall feeling was that the power of Ifrit was diminished by turning him into a breed of pet for people.

Yoshi wants there to be only one Ifrit, and he wants him to be very powerful.

Other lesser summons like Carbuncle and Cait Sith could replicate themselves and be used for a SMN job in this game, but for the big summons, there will be only one version at any given point.

I figured out the general idea of what you were saying.

An Ifrit Materia or Esper could be used to summon the essence or the effect of Ifrit but to summon him it is to be expected that you can only do it once at any given time. It gives primal's a life of their own when they are treated as autonomous beings and not elements.

The Summoner should really be called a Channeler as they channel Ifrit like power rather than summon.

[Viritess]

I figured out the general idea of what you were saying.

An Ifrit Materia or Esper could be used to summon the essence or the effect of Ifrit but to summon him it is to be expected that you can only do it once at any given time. It gives primal's a life of their own when they are treated as autonomous beings and not elements.

The Summoner should really be called a Channeler as they channel Ifrit like power rather than summon.

I suppose your last sentance is really the question, if we define it like that then FF11, from what i understand, would be a Channeler. So going by those definitions, do we prefer a Channeler or a Summoner for FF14?

Personally, i'd rather have a Summoner, working in the bounds of what Yoshi-P has planned as far as we know, would cost us the big name summons. I'm fine with that.

[Ehl]

in nearly all the FF's party members could summon summons.

Yes, it is true that any individual party member could summon, but in each game there was only one of whatever spiritual entity the summoner was calling forth. What I mean is that there was only one spiritual entity named Ifrit, there was only one Shiva, there was only one Fenrir (and there can be only one Highlander!), and so on.

By making it so that each spirit can only be utilized by one group (or individual) at a time means the integrity of the mythos in FFXIV will be strengthened.

I can't speak for how things were in FFXI, but from the descriptions people are giving of the summoner class in that game, it sounds like everyone who had the job unlocked and took the time to level it up got the same avatar/pets. To me not only does this cheapen the jobs abilities it undermines the integrity of the mythos. Why? Because Having multiple "Ifrit spirits" flying around contradicts the fact that the story indicates that Ifrit is a singular entity.

Perhaps a compromise could be reached if instead of having the Primals as avatar/pets the summoner could summon Elemental Spirits to aid in combat and the Primals (or famous summons from FF's of the past) must be achieved by competitive means.

The role of a summoner is to call forth spiritual entities using rituals or ceramonial magic to aid in battle. Making it so that whichever group has fought and obtained the primal must work as a team to perform some type of "ritual" to boost the power of the spirit makes this more like an actual summon. And, if the "rituals" or tasks that are done to boost the power of the Primal must be lead by a Summoner class/job that would be even more awesome!

IMO this idea given in the OP souds very interesting.

Again we really will know nothing untill 2.0 is launched.

[Jennestia]

Yes, it is true that any individual party member could summon, but in each game there was only one of whatever spiritual entity the summoner was calling forth. What I mean is that there was only one spiritual entity named Ifrit, there was only one Shiva, there was only one Fenrir (and there can be only one Highlander!), and so on.

By making it so that each spirit can only be utilized by one group (or individual) at a time means the integrity of the mythos in FFXIV will be strengthened.

I can't speak for how things were in FFXI, but from the descriptions people are giving of the summoner class in that game, it sounds like everyone who had the job unlocked and took the time to level it up got the same avatar/pets. To me not only does this cheapen the jobs abilities it undermines the integrity of the mythos. Why? Because Having multiple "Ifrit spirits" flying around contradicts the fact that the story indicates that Ifrit is a singular entity.

Perhaps a compromise could be reached if instead of having the Primals as avatar/pets the summoner could summon Elemental Spirits to aid in combat and the Primals (or famous summons from FF's of the past) must be achieved by competitive means.

The role of a summoner is to call forth spiritual entities using rituals or ceramonial magic to aid in battle. Making it so that whichever group has fought and obtained the primal must work as a team to perform some type of "ritual" to boost the power of the spirit makes this more like an actual summon. And, if the "rituals" or tasks that are done to boost the power of the Primal must be lead by a Summoner class/job that would be even more awesome!

IMO this idea given in the OP souds very interesting.

Again we really will know nothing untill 2.0 is launched.

In FFXI it was essentially the same - Your party members (like other FF games) could summon, however there's only a few storybased characters (like other FF games) who can actually summon the diety themselves, whom existed primarily during the Zilart era.

Basically there's only 1 person who actually succeeded in Summoning Fenrir in "modern times" which promptly ended up killing him. In FFXI you had to fight a copy of the god called Avatars, which basically means you're only seeing a copy of them, not the actual diety themselves -- There are a few who are actually awake but still only offer you a fraction of their power and there's some who aren't going to allow you to fully control them (Odin and Alexander.)

The thing most people forget is, Yoshida isn't talking specifically about FFXI and the copies as "cheapening", just the idea as the series went on Summoning has become pretty much a staple of the game when before they were just elaborate nukes, so it's not the copies, because every summoner and their grandma will be running around with a lesser summon, but they clearly have to have some importance unless SE goes the lazy route and just allow you to level into summoning them.

In XIV vs XI, XIV's primals aren't offering their power to anyone, thus summoners won't be able to summon even a copy of them, but Free Companies will be able to get a Card to allow one time summon of the god itself. In XI, they offer you their power in exchange if you beat them.

[Kazai]

I think Fenrir should not be a lesser primal.