Ideas on Fixing/Improving Frontline - Balance, Map Design, UI/UX, Objectives

[Themarvin]

Reduce the gain from killing people... problem solved also most Flank King right now is a total disaster, if you can keep yourself alive in in FL, and getting objectives is more effecient.

[Mawlzy]

Reduce the gain from killing people... problem solved also most Flank King right now is a total disaster, if you can keep yourself alive in in FL, and getting objectives is more effecient.

I don't see any benefit in making PvP more like PvE.

[IDontPetLalas]

Reduce the gain from killing people... problem solved also most Flank King right now is a total disaster, if you can keep yourself alive in in FL, and getting objectives is more effecient.

I don't see how this would help. Personally, I prefer to have objective based PvP , the mode that I like least- usually because it's not easy to balance for- is "last man standing".

That being said- I want to have kills rewarded, I want to encourage active participation. I want people to see that they can't just show up and breathe and win. I don't see why that's too high of a bar.

I would rather go the route that it requires some minimum contribution to get rewards. The thing is- the best system that I saw compared each person's performance against others in in the same job for the same match- even with hundreds of players- so that eliminated some obvious ways of getting rewarded for no contribution.

[Mawlzy]

I don't see how this would help. Personally, I prefer to have objective based PvP , the mode that I like least- usually because it's not easy to balance for- is "last man standing".

That being said- I want to have kills rewarded, I want to encourage active participation. I want people to see that they can't just show up and breathe and win. I don't see why that's too high of a bar.

I would rather go the route that it requires some minimum contribution to get rewards. The thing is- the best system that I saw compared each person's performance against others in in the same job for the same match- even with hundreds of players- so that eliminated some obvious ways of getting rewarded for no contribution.

Agreed on all points.

Without job-specific thresholds it'll just be a new path to abuse. Like if it was damage-based, you'd have the non-combatants do something like drop a SCH plague and then go hide.

[CidHeiral]

I think the damage reduction in Frontline should be removed or reduced significantly, and I'm someone that plays melee a lot of the time. I was playing Rival Wings earlier today and realized one of the reasons it's so much more fun than FL is that people actually take damage. After thinking back on it I recall FL being significantly more fun when the PvP revamp first launched for that same reason. It feels like you're actually outplaying people on the battlefield rather than just being along for the ride in your team's giant death ball.

[NightHour]

Removal of Salted Earth's pull would put a stop to this drk drg ast bs.

[SeaJae]

You mentioned competitive, and perhaps we have different definitions of it, but even casual CC is not. There is no competition in there. No matter how you make FL more or less hardcore than it is, it will never be competitive.

Yes. I would say that these "definitions" are indeed different. If you don't consider any game that is PvP "competitive" in nature, regardless of casual or not... that is actually just definitionally incorrect.

[Valence]

Or so you say, but I'm not willing to get into insipid discussions about definitions like it's been for many pages now in that trainwreck of a DRK thread in the tank section.

[Mawlzy]

Or so you say, but I'm not willing to get into insipid discussions about definitions like it's been for many pages now in that trainwreck of a DRK thread in the tank section.

Insipid discussions? I'm told I specialize in these so will leap in.

One can claim, as SeaJae does, that any PvP mode is definitionally competitive. True, but only semantically. I agree with Valence that any practical definition requires all players to actually compete (typically over something meaningful like a ladder ranking).

The fundamental issue FL faces is that a small subset of premades are trying to top the weekly leaderboards (or pad), a significant middle compete because they are competitive by nature, and a big fat rump are just riding around on horses.

Net result is that most people are unhappy.

[Valence]

Alright, I'll bite. Your definition at the most literal level is right. But when I do jump into FL or casual CC, I don't do it competitively. I don't care if I win or lose. There is nothing to win or lose. I'm not interested in victory or defeat. I will play to win because that's what the gameplay loop is about and I'll try to play my best while chilling or having fun experimenting about, but I'm not going to tryhard and care about any ranking or competition as a contest. I do find it pointless, and people that do it in those modes just puzzle me, which is why I have a very hard time connecting with DRK tryhard abusers, which I do find extremely reminiscent of that guy we have probably all seen in our life jumping into a football game with his little cousins and stomping them to the ground while flexing about it (just have to read the chat when they win really). While any pvp mode is by its definition competitive in nature, my mindset in there is not.

Does this make sense?