Lazy devs and fatigue

[Dante131]

That's where FFXIV seems to be different. They got a lot of feedback in 1.0 and changed the game drastically based on that.

The result was a game that respected people's time a lot more than others - such as teleporting everywhere an unlimited amount instead of traveling, only killing 3 enemies for quests, splitting bosses into different instances so you don't feel trapped in a raid for hours, getting rid of pointless time-wasting trash mobs in raids, resetting cooldowns on each wipe, etc. They noticed only spending 12-20 minutes in a dungeon was working well for people and kept it up.

The natural result of that is a game that doesn't require as much time investment as MMORPGs used to.

Arguably, they have sorta been using the same philosophy that games with DLC use and making it more like those, so you play through them then you're done. To a degree. Because there are still events, patches, and ways to play the game all day (such as RP, social content with your FC/CWLS, mount collecting or raid progging).

Right now, I just wish they'd voice things like seasonal events or make them more interesting than just a little sob story where we feel sorry for someone and help them overcome their confidence/sadness dilemmas.

so whats the point ? its seems you just read want you want too read man. I know you will defend everything they do but cmon. people litterally asking for activity...

you know what ill try it one more time. you say the game respects the time of its players ? Where? yes you can teleport whenever you want thats it. Dungeons are the same every time, raids without trash mobs are just giant bosses with repeating mechanics. and often not even tankable. I wont complain about the raids they are normally fine. People do complain about dungeon design for so long now... 2 pulls w2w nothing happens is boring even if its fast. Class design dont get me started...

For the next point people want spending time in the game that was my whole point ... its like thread number 12 i read where people begging for more stuff cause they want too play the game...

RP, social content with your FC/CWLS is community driven content ... mount collecting negates your respect players time argument... Spamm 300 runs for a Mount on release or wait 1 year and buy it then. Thats respecting time i guess. Raid progging is funny because but be real how many people are in raids and how many are casuals?

For the last part we finally meat. I would like to have more good events with nice stuff as reward but not just seasonal i mean it in general. Moogle stones are cool but the rewards are mostly weird like its faster getting the stuff unsync the dutys.

[Sinstrel]

The game has tons and tons of content... but the gameplay loop is absurdly boring. Devs refuse to innovate and try anything new that diverges from the current 1-2-3-4 gameplay loop we've had for 10 years.

One frustrating thing is that there are some pretty good ideas they've had but were all executed in some of the most bland ways the fans of the game could have never predicted. The latest example being "Chaotic raids" where everyone was pumped to do something like a Crystal Tower version of CLL, Dalradia, Baldesion Arsenal with an accompanying new gameplay loop such as how Eureka/Bozja actions were introduced to give the players customization and the ability to break free of the standard 1-2-3-4 but instead were blind sided by receiving a 24-man single boss trial that apparently took them 2+ years to develop.

Massive of waste of time, resources and excitement. I say this as someone who pre-ordered Dawntrail and haven't even bothered to play through it after logging on and realizing I'd be doing the exact same thing as post-Endwalker for another 2+ years.

[Jojoya]

YOU DID IT! YOU SAID THE THING! Everything about FFXIV eventually goes back to WoW. The whole reason why this game exists is to fight WoW. FFXIV doesn't have a purpose by itself, it can only be validated when compared to WoW. Otherwise, far less people would actually play it.

It only goes back to WoW for those who have played WoW. It's natural for people to compare things they have experienced. Those who never played WoW have no experience to compare to.

I played WoW for 7 years before I tried FFXIV for the first time. I continued to play WoW for about 4 years, switching back and forth between it and FFXIV before I threw in the towel on WoW and its borrowed power systems, forced grinds and ARPG style loot RNG.

This game doesn't exist to fight WoW. It exists to offer its own gaming experience. For some, that overall experience is better than what they get from WoW. For others, WoW is better. For yet a third group, both games are fun in their own way and they play both.

Strangely, by saying that fewer people would be playing FFXIV if it weren't for WoW you're handing FFXIV a complement. A subpar game wouldn't be able to draw players away from the legendary King of the Mountain and hold their attention for years.

So the desire for spending all the time in the game is crown in my opinion.

My opinion is that is an extremely unhealthy thing to want, both for the gaming industry and for personal health (you're calling addiction a good thing).

Part of what makes this game different is that YoshiP was a gamer long before he ended up on FFXIV or even his pre-FFXIV days on Dragon Quest. He understands the value of having the freedom to play and experience multiple games. He's passed that freedom along to the player base with the FFXIV design. We're not overloaded with grinds to accomplish each week (or indefinitely) so we can play other games concurrently with FFXIV. If we want to take a full break from FFXIV for a few months, it's easy to play catch up once we return.

Since I know at this point someone is going to go "housing", I'm going to call it what it is - a personal problem. It's up to the player to decide what is more valuable to them - the house or their subscription money.

[Dante131]

It only goes back to WoW for those who have played WoW. It's natural for people to compare things they have experienced. Those who never played WoW have no experience to compare to.

I played WoW for 7 years before I tried FFXIV for the first time. I continued to play WoW for about 4 years, switching back and forth between it and FFXIV before I threw in the towel on WoW and its borrowed power systems, forced grinds and ARPG style loot RNG.

This game doesn't exist to fight WoW. It exists to offer its own gaming experience. For some, that overall experience is better than what they get from WoW. For others, WoW is better. For yet a third group, both games are fun in their own way and they play both.

Strangely, by saying that fewer people would be playing FFXIV if it weren't for WoW you're handing FFXIV a complement. A subpar game wouldn't be able to draw players away from the legendary King of the Mountain and hold their attention for years.


My opinion is that is an extremely unhealthy thing to want, both for the gaming industry and for personal health (you're calling addiction a good thing).

hmm might have used the wrong words mb. But on the other hand yes might be true. i mean many players are sitting more then 5 hours behind the pc so good point.

[KernCadfan]

To me, it shouldn't go back to WoW at all, but rather the other game SE actually worked on, being FFXI. We know they understand how to make a compelling game. They've done it several times over, twice over when it comes to final fantasy mmorpgs one is 10 years old, the other is over 20 years old. That should tell us something. A very clear and pointed something. What they lack in recent years is an ability to find that easy medium between hard core "no-life" grinds like what are sometimes in FFXI back before rmt destroyed it, and super sparing drip-feed content, such as FFXIV in this day and age. There needs to be a medium level that they can tap into to reach the playerbase.

MMORPG's need some kinds of grinds (not only glamours and mounts and stuff, and not only tome stones for gear, either) to make you feel a sense of progression as a player, yet that grind can't be so overblown that it becomes ridiculous... the problem is a lot of people just say to go back and do old content, but if we wanted that content then, we would have DONE it then... and that's the key thing a lot of people overlook.

I don't think the devs are lazy, far from it. I think they just don't want to commit to any clear playerbase, and try to appease everyone. FFXI was certainly for the hard core, community focused grindy-type players when it came to nearly everything. FFXIV is much more casual, but sometimes when it comes to drip-feed content, too casual.

The kind of grindy content I would like is the kind I can take with me as progression... not just a glam or an emote, or a mount, but something that allows me to progress that I do get to keep. Look at merits, FFXI, for an example of that... now to be clear i'm not suggesting merits per say, but just a system that allows me to feel like I'm actually bettering the character beyond just what's "on content" for now.... something that can and shall stand the test of time...

That's what the game needs more of, I'd say... just tests of time... something that's long lasting and doesn't phase out as drastically as our current systems.

[Jeeqbit]

so whats the point ?

The point is to state that SE intentionally makes it like DLC games where it's content, you do it, then it's done. That isn't particularly defending it; it's just stating it.

its seems you just read want you want too read man.

So does everyone. That's why echo chambers exist. I'm a bit of an odd one because I expose myself to this relative echo chamber of negativity despite my positive outlook on things.

I know you will defend everything they do but cmon.

I only defend against impoliteness/rudeness (ie. calling hard-working developers "lazy") and misinformation ie. game is dying when statistics don't agree etc. If the suggestion is well put together and considered then I usually just upvote it if it's something reasonable, or engage with it.

you say the game respects the time of its players ? Where? yes you can teleport whenever you want thats it.

That isn't it. I already provided plenty of examples and there are many more you can find if you search the internet, since lots of content creators have covered how it respects your time. I didn't mean it was perfect or that there aren't things that waste time, just that MMOs of old wasted far more of it. Now you could say that's a good thing because it's stuff to do, but if it's destroying a person's life and ability to look after themselves due to the time consumption, it's not so good.

Dungeons are the same every time, raids without trash mobs are just giant bosses with repeating mechanics

I'm not saying dungeons can't be better. It would be great if they were better! For example, I believe at the bare minimum you should have to use Reprisal or wipe to raid-wides and that you should have to mit tank busters or get killed. If they had random mechanics, that would probably be great too.

But, if I look at this objectively, SE has been attempting a different type of dungeon to address this: variant and criterion. Variant is meant to address the feedback of dungeons being the same route always, while criterion is meant to address the feedback of them not being challenging enough.

Now obviously there have been issues with variant and criterion. Variant doesn't end up being in a roulette that people are doing to cap tomestones making these efforts irrelevant, and criterion is regarded as being more like savage as opposed to a "more engaging casual dungeon". But they have technically been trying to address some of the feedback regarding dungeons via this so you could argue it's a start.

I think their hesitation to make MSQ dungeons that challenging is all the story-only players. It's just true that there are a lot of people that come and do the story then quit for 2 years. Hardcore players might not like this but it's just kinda true, and they need to be able to progress the story. That said, I do wish for them to feel that the bosses were challenging or made them sweat a bit, which has often not been the case for trials (especially old ones where our item level wrecks it and raid-wides do 2% damage).

People do complain about dungeon design for so long now... 2 pulls w2w nothing happens is boring even if its fast.

They could do them different I suppose, like making us ride mounts similar to Praetorium to chase someone, free prisoners like in Wanderer's Palace HM, fall from the sky like in Byakko, use the G-Warrior, or randomizing mechanics. Do I particularly need this from dungeons? No, but I'm not opposed to it.

I think the main issue with dungeons really is just that Expert roulette lost the variety it once had, which was already limited as it was, due to the discontinuation of sidequest dungeons and longer patch cycles, so you become such an "expert" at the latest dungeons that it makes you physically sick to do them and it begins to feel like torture capping tomestones that way.

The other issue is with old content and how poorly it syncs so that the mechanics don't even matter, removing the need to think.

For the next point people want spending time in the game that was my whole point ... its like thread number 12 i read where people begging for more stuff cause they want too play the game...

Only thread number 12? People been complaining about that for the whole game's life. I remember seeing people wanting more in Heavensward even, which is often made out to be some perfect time in the game's history but really a lot of the standards were set then that remain true today. What saved Heavensward from this was probably just the fact a lot of people hadn't done very basic stuff in the game yet (like leveling all jobs), whereas long-time veterans have got around to that over the course of 11 years, especially after that Amaro mount came out.

RP, social content with your FC/CWLS is community driven content ...

Making social, community-driven content possible in an MMORPG is kinda valid though, and often been a big part of MMORPGs that have developed features to support it.

mount collecting negates your respect players time argument...

Well yes? But the point is that mount collecting is optional, yet provides a motivation to spend more time playing if you want a reason to spend more time playing.