Competence Check for Group Content

[Arohk]

What happens when SE defines competence differently than players do (not that the player base would ever agree on what defines competence)?.

Lets talk about basic competence:

DPS:
Using AOE abilities on 3 or more enemies instead of single target
Using Single target abilities on bosses instead of AOE abilities ( Hello Ninja who keeps using Doton on the boss)
Not standing in front of the boss and getting cleaved.

Melee:
Not running away and out of melee range because you get an AOE marker on you.

Healers:
Not using Cure/Physik/Benefic/Diagnosis outside of low level Dungeons.
Cleansing Doom with Esuna

Tanks:
Turning on Tank Stance
Using AOE abilities on 3 or more enemies instead of single target
proper Mitigation management.
Pulling more than one pack at the time in dungeons.

Casters/Ranged DPS
Not standing at the arse of the world & outside of AOE heal range

[Jojoya]

Lets talk about basic competence:
(snip the rest)

Okay, that's your definition. Even some of what you list would need further definition (like what is proper mitigation management) though overall I wouldn't really disagree with it.

We're still missing SE's definition. SE's definition is going to be influenced by what it takes to allow the maximum number of players to continue playing if this proposed revision of Hall of the Novice were to be implemented. Their definition is likely to be barebones for things that are likely to cause a failure state for a party.

As an example (and this really is one of my pet peeves with some players) DPS standing in front of the boss so they get hit by cleaves intended to be taken only by the tank. Is it annoying? Yeah. Does it cause the group to fail? Generally no. The healer heals the DPS back up (hey, nice to have a need to heal someone for a change) and the fight continues.

It's also not always the DPS player's fault. There are still tanks that like to dance around and move the boss when there's no need, including turning it directly at the party just as the cleave is about to be used. That's something to add to basic tank competence - keep a boss that can be moved stationary and turned away from the rest of the party unless they are required to stack or there is a specific need to move the boss.

[Arohk]

Okay, that's your definition. Even some of what you list would need further definition (like what is proper mitigation management) though overall I wouldn't really disagree with it.

not using all your defensive cooldowns at once,
not using Party Mitigation when no raidwide AOE is happening,
not using magic mitigation when the boss is doing physical or neutral damage (only regards GNB and DRK)

As an example (and this really is one of my pet peeves with some players) DPS standing in front of the boss so they get hit by cleaves intended to be taken only by the tank. Is it annoying? Yeah. Does it cause the group to fail? Generally no.

If a melee dps stands infront of the boss, he already fails at his basic rotation, because you have positional attacks from behind and the side, dieing to a tankbuster or bosscleave is just the cherry on top.

[Jojoya]

If a melee dps stands infront of the boss, he already fails at his basic rotation, because you have positional attacks from behind and the side, dieing to a tankbuster or bosscleave is just the cherry on top.

That's not necessarily failure at their rotation. That's failure to deal optimal damage since those abilities are still going to be dealing damage, just not damage at maximum potency.

No party is going to fail in Normal content because a melee DPS is ignoring their positionals.

[Besame]

I went after a leet boss on a hunt group the other day and the tank thought it was real funny to pull the boss inside the huge tree so the dps could not tell where the next attacks were coming from nor reach him.This crap goes on in dungeons also that is why I stopped doing them except in the forced MSQ