Competence Check for Group Content

[Mawlzy]

In From The Cold was an amazing gameplay moment and it's never going to happen again. Thanks, so-called fans.

You're welcome.

[Mawlzy]

Solo duties already do serve as something of a competence check, except then people come to the forums to whine and complain about them because they can't do them even on Very Easy difficulty.

They could serve as an extremely effective competency check, provided we play as ourselves instead of someone else.

[PorxiesRCute]

They could serve as an extremely effective competency check, provided we play as ourselves instead of someone else.

If four buttons are too hard for you, how would having access to the rest of your rotation help?

[Mawlzy]

If four buttons are too hard for you, how would having access to the rest of your rotation help?

How does using four buttons in a solo duty teach people to use their rotation?

[ArchlordPie]

If four buttons are too hard for you, how would having access to the rest of your rotation help?

Because the rest of my rotation is MY rotation.

To be fair, I main SMN and use it almost exclusively for solo content. So it's not like I'm used to anything particularly complex to begin with.

That being said, let's assume for a moment that I'm trash and still haven't figured SMN out after playing its current iteration for 2 years of Endwalker and all of Dawntrail thus far, and haven't bothered with any other classes at all this whole time. How is giving me a different character with a scuffed WAR toolkit (this is referring to the Wuk Lamat duty in DT) supposed to make the game easier, considering that I've never encountered "you must be very close to your target in order to attack it" as a concept prior to this, let alone anything else that toolkit has going on? (For the sake of argument, assume I story boosted straight past the Thancred duty in ShB and anything equivalent in EW.)

Better yet, let's assume I'm a WAR main, and competent. How would that duty NOT be easier if I had access to WAR's entire toolkit instead of Wuk Lamat's scuffed one?

And that's not even getting into the part where people learn at different speeds. Yes, the other characters' toolkits are very simple. There's a single target combo stacked on one button, maybe an AoE combo stacked on a button, maybe a movement button, and usually 1-2 defensives and a LB. They do this because nobody wants to invest a bunch of time into learning a toolkit they'll never use again after that duty. They also do this because casuals struggle to learn their actual toolkits that they use regularly, and making them learn a new one with any real complexity at all quite literally will wall them out of the rest of the MSQ. (This is a friendly reminder that Very Easy exists and people STILL struggle with it.)

[Mawlzy]

And that's not even getting into the part where people learn at different speeds. Yes, the other characters' toolkits are very simple. There's a single target combo stacked on one button, maybe an AoE combo stacked on a button, maybe a movement button, and usually 1-2 defensives and a LB. They do this because nobody wants to invest a bunch of time into learning a toolkit they'll never use again after that duty. They also do this because casuals struggle to learn their actual toolkits that they use regularly, and making them learn a new one with any real complexity at all quite literally will wall them out of the rest of the MSQ. (This is a friendly reminder that Very Easy exists and people STILL struggle with it.)

Also worth noting that the reason some people struggle even in very easy mode often has little to do with combat anyway. Some of the solo duties are badly explained and involve mechanics such as stealth that work poorly in FF14. If you're familiar with such mechanics from other games, such duties will be a breeze. If you're confronted with them for the first time in solo duties, some people will struggle. And such mechanics do absolutely nothing to raise the skill floor of players in regards to their rotation.

[VanillaWafer]

[Shortened cuz char limit.]

Let's take all of that into consideration.

I'd argue that the whale player is at fault for not taking the time to understand their kit. I dunno about you, but throwing money to solve this just doesn't work. All you needed to do for the Wuk Lamat fight was read her dang tooltips and understand how they worked.

I'd also argue that doing these roleplay solo content kinda forces the player to eventually learn what other roles do, but with a dumbed down kit. And if you know that role, cool. You shouldn't have a hard time with the fight, no?

So what if it's dumbed down and/or outside your comfort zone? It's a one and done instance that you likely will never see again. Yes, you're gonna struggle and mess up at first, but you did eventually succeed, right? You're gonna do something similar in group content, too, just with your own kit.

Now granted, I don't think the couple of stealth missions did much of anything outside of story content, but it was refreshing to see the development team try something new, for the time.

Honestly, I think the difficulty curve in general was needed to weed out players who are simply lazy. Not casual players. A casual player can definitely beat that Wuk Lamat fight.

I'm very sorry to say this, but why should you progress and be rewarded if you're not going to put in the work in a video game that requires your time and effort?

As it stands, there's no penalty for not being up to a standard, but nobody expects you to be perfect. But I expect some level of competency from my party if I'm running an instance, as they likely are expecting me of the same.

Basically, more people need to improvise, adapt, and overcome. Y'all are not doing that nowadays if you're having this much trouble.

[PorxiesRCute]

Solo duties aren't about "doing your rotation", they're about paying attention to the battle and reacting appropriately while doing a very dumbed-down rotation.

What mechanics are you even seeing "for the first time" in a solo duty? The orange puddles on the ground have been there since day 1.

I guess the Gulool Ja Ja fight had some unique mechanics, but they never insta-kill you. You're supposed to get hit, go "oh that's how that goes", and learn for next time.

[Mawlzy]

Solo duties aren't about "doing your rotation", they're about paying attention to the battle and reacting appropriately while doing a very dumbed-down rotation.

What mechanics are you even seeing "for the first time" in a solo duty? The orange puddles on the ground have been there since day 1.

I guess the Gulool Ja Ja fight had some unique mechanics, but they never insta-kill you. You're supposed to get hit, go "oh that's how that goes", and learn for next time.

I mentioned stealth explicitly.

My main point here is simply that solo duties could be used to improve player competency, but in practice they do not, particularly when we play as someone else. One might argue job/role quests do this, but the recent healer line seemed to mostly involve being told to use Esuna and pressing the right button. That's not teaching healers anything about playing well in dungeons.

Most of the solo duties teach you how to do that solo duty. Broader applicability is minimal.

[PorxiesRCute]

I mentioned stealth explicitly.

My main point here is simply that solo duties could be used to improve player competency, but in practice they do not, particularly when we play as someone else. One might argue job/role quests do this, but the recent healer line seemed to mostly involve being told to use Esuna and pressing the right button. That's not teaching healers anything about playing well in dungeons.

Most of the solo duties teach you how to do that solo duty. Broader applicability is minimal.

Stealth was not "first seen" in any roleplay duty. Did you already forget about the quest where you have to track the woman to Victor's Spoils, which everyone whined about when Endwalker first dropped?

Plus, if you ever did the Rogue class quests...