Competence Check for Group Content

[Jojoya]

Lets talk about basic competence:
(snip the rest)

Okay, that's your definition. Even some of what you list would need further definition (like what is proper mitigation management) though overall I wouldn't really disagree with it.

We're still missing SE's definition. SE's definition is going to be influenced by what it takes to allow the maximum number of players to continue playing if this proposed revision of Hall of the Novice were to be implemented. Their definition is likely to be barebones for things that are likely to cause a failure state for a party.

As an example (and this really is one of my pet peeves with some players) DPS standing in front of the boss so they get hit by cleaves intended to be taken only by the tank. Is it annoying? Yeah. Does it cause the group to fail? Generally no. The healer heals the DPS back up (hey, nice to have a need to heal someone for a change) and the fight continues.

It's also not always the DPS player's fault. There are still tanks that like to dance around and move the boss when there's no need, including turning it directly at the party just as the cleave is about to be used. That's something to add to basic tank competence - keep a boss that can be moved stationary and turned away from the rest of the party unless they are required to stack or there is a specific need to move the boss.

[Arohk]

Okay, that's your definition. Even some of what you list would need further definition (like what is proper mitigation management) though overall I wouldn't really disagree with it.

not using all your defensive cooldowns at once,
not using Party Mitigation when no raidwide AOE is happening,
not using magic mitigation when the boss is doing physical or neutral damage (only regards GNB and DRK)

As an example (and this really is one of my pet peeves with some players) DPS standing in front of the boss so they get hit by cleaves intended to be taken only by the tank. Is it annoying? Yeah. Does it cause the group to fail? Generally no.

If a melee dps stands infront of the boss, he already fails at his basic rotation, because you have positional attacks from behind and the side, dieing to a tankbuster or bosscleave is just the cherry on top.

[Jojoya]

If a melee dps stands infront of the boss, he already fails at his basic rotation, because you have positional attacks from behind and the side, dieing to a tankbuster or bosscleave is just the cherry on top.

That's not necessarily failure at their rotation. That's failure to deal optimal damage since those abilities are still going to be dealing damage, just not damage at maximum potency.

No party is going to fail in Normal content because a melee DPS is ignoring their positionals.

[Besame]

I went after a leet boss on a hunt group the other day and the tank thought it was real funny to pull the boss inside the huge tree so the dps could not tell where the next attacks were coming from nor reach him.This crap goes on in dungeons also that is why I stopped doing them except in the forced MSQ

[Besame]

What happens when SE defines competence differently than players do (not that the player base would ever agree on what defines competence)?

Also, WoW tried something similar to what you suggest back in Mists of Pandaria. It was called Proving Grounds. It did not end well.

You can make Hall of the Novice mandatory but it will never be a guarantee that a player will perform "competently".

Thank you, a sample of sanity from among the "they NEED to" mayhem.

[ArchlordPie]

What happens when SE defines competence differently than players do (not that the player base would ever agree on what defines competence)?

Also, WoW tried something similar to what you suggest back in Mists of Pandaria. It was called Proving Grounds. It did not end well.

You can make Hall of the Novice mandatory but it will never be a guarantee that a player will perform "competently".

Hah, I remember Proving Grounds and the fiasco that followed them making it mandatory to queue for heroic dungeons in WoD.

Just another reason to point out to your new friends that as long as they have their buttons on their hotbars and have some vague idea of how to use them properly, they're already more skilled than roughly half the game's playerbase.

[IDontPetLalas]

Just looking at the healer list, to start

Using cooldowns- that would be interesting to hear from Square -i.e.- what their perspective is
Using damage skills, while also healing -- already part of what every healer should absorb through the role quests, so meh
Using better/upgraded spells instead of Cure/Physick/Benefic/Diagnosis ;> fair enough, even better if the skills were upgraded through a redesign
Mana management, as a addendum of the point above -> not something I would have identified as a teaching point (as it isn't a pain point), but can't hurt
The different philosophies between heal (reactive) and shield (proactive) healers -> honestly best of luck with this one, I don't think Square has a good idea themselves
Using Esuna (DT healer role-quest does this but it needs to be a LOT sooner) -> DT hammers healers over the head so many times it's worse than condescending, not to mention boring for a skill that ranges from must-use to use-but-no-one -will-die - but WILL get rotation/ movement affected (slow- heavy) - probably ignore

[PorxiesRCute]

Solo duties already do serve as something of a competence check, except then people come to the forums to whine and complain about them because they can't do them even on Very Easy difficulty.

[Arohk]

Solo duties already do serve as something of a competence check, except then people come to the forums to whine and complain about them because they can't do them even on Very Easy difficulty.

The Part where Zenos steals your body was probably the most memorable solo duty, mainly because it gave you a feeling of actual dread, not only lore wise, but also by gameplay, it was such a welcoming exchange from the otherwise dull content during the MSQ

[PorxiesRCute]

The Part where Zenos steals your body was probably the most memorable solo duty, mainly because it gave you a feeling of actual dread, not only lore wise, but also by gameplay, it was such a welcoming exchange from the otherwise dull content during the MSQ

In From The Cold was an amazing gameplay moment and it's never going to happen again. Thanks, so-called fans.