Response to Yoshi P: you can fix it.. but

[Eyrilona]

- They moved Koji-Fox, who has been handling the English localization with a spotless record for 10 years and handed the task to someone who are far less competent and professional ... and it shows.

Um.. Koji-Fox's record is actually quite spotted and not without scandals being caught out in weird stuff.

Recently a bilingual (JP/EN) content creator has even started calling him out as actually quite detrimental to the international versions of the game, because of his insistence on rewriting things 'his way' in ways that will then produce massive plot holes in future patches (because the JP devs base how they will proceed on the JP version of the game, not the 'creative localization').

Under Koji's guidance, the localization team has simply omitted major plot points that exist in the JP version from the EN version, completely changed the personalities of major characters (seriously, people like Urianger and Alphinaud, Gaius and Haurchefant), confused things that were supposed to be obvious in the JP script, inserted sexual innuendo in a lot of jokes where they weren't in the JP, changed character motivations (e.g. did you know Gaius never meant to conquer Eorzea? His lines at the start of the Praetorium make SO much more sense in JP, while in English he seems to be seeking you to side with him in.. conquering your own home?), and so many more liberties that ended up creating plotholes and things that look like retcons to EN players a few expansions down the line.

Koji is also rather too fond of his own mythos and gets away with overselling his influence on the game because he can tell the EN player base his side of the story in interviews that don't get fact checked by the JP team.

[Raven2014]

snip

Ok, proof for any of these claim please?

I tried to google one of your claim (about Praetorium ) and the first result is from ~5months ago by someone on reddit who tried to challenge the English translation while openly admit they use "google translate" and then re-write it into proper sentence. Needless to say they got immediately called out for their audacity.

I've been studying Japanese for about 3 years now and while I'm not any where near proficient, I know enough to discern when the Japanese VA don't match the sub. It's the reason why I decided to swear off a lot of tittle from Nintedo the last couple years until I can fully play them in Japanese after too many "there is no freaking way that's what they said" moments with their games. And I honestly don't see what you're claiming.

- I know Y'shtola has the most radical change. In JP she's more a stoic sage, whether in the English version she's more a sassy witch.

- I'm pretty sure the JP community actually think the English Shakespearean Urianger is a better portrayal of his character than the JP version is.

- Your claim about Haurchefant and sexual innuendo ... seriously are you sure you're not getting your accusation backward here? The JP Haurchefant was a total flirt and that's exactly why he got tone down in the English version. This one is hilarious to me because - full disclosure - a lot of my practical experience with Japanese came from reading eroge so his JP line was very familiar to me.

- I have NEVER heard anyone who interpret Gauis's speak the same way you just did, in English or JP. He believes in strength, and those who endowed bear the responsibility of bringing order to the world, kind of like a noble oblige. It's because he recognize the WoL's strength that he wants us to join him, that's a way for him to show respect.

- I know Koji is quite liberal with his insertion of meme, especially in naming of quest.

Again, I'm not exactly fluent so I can be wrong or miss something, I'm just saying if you have proof for any of your claim, that would be nice to see.

To be clear, I'm not a purist who would rail again "localization" simply because it's "difference". I'm fully aware of the difference between translation and localization. As a born and raised Asian but living in the US, it's not rare for me to not be able to translate one from another even though I would consider I'm naturally fluent in both language. The reason why I'm pointing out this is for the most part, his localization are well received because the change he made are often in good taste. Also, he ALWAYS had solid direction, evidence by the strong VA performance we consistently see in the last 10 years. The same can not be said for DT, like ... not even close.

[AnimaAnimus]

- Your claim about Haurchefant and sexual innuendo ... seriously are you sure you're not getting your accusation backward here? The JP Haurchefant was a total flirt and that's exactly why he got tone down in the English version. This one is hilarious to me because - full disclosure - a lot of my practical experience with Japanese came from reading eroge so his JP line was very familiar to me.

The thing with Haurchefant and the innuendo was that Koji removed it due to something about him feeling that since there was the possibility of it being gay if your character was also male and him not thinking that would not sit well with NA audiences which would cause backlash. He didn't add it, he subtracted it, and his reasons came off as, and frankly were, very homophobic. He was even scolded by Yoshida for it publically. I don't remember the details, but it was a big thing back then. To me it came off as the same sort of unintentional homophobia all my straight friends are guilty of, and were not aware of it being homophobic until it was pointed out. So I will give him a pass since it was just a singular incident in a game they were being extra careful in. He has gotten criticism over changing major story beats that do drastically change things, but that was addressed as well and while the excuses made sense, they also didn't. It was something about social and cultural differences, which didn't make sense with the changes since there was nothing that could be considered offensive or polarizing. It was reductive, however, with key plot points being lost. I know in ShB, esp toward the end, there were a lot of changes, but idk if he was still the lead back then or if Kate already had her fingers in it. That being said, Kate needs to go, she doesn't have a job, she has an agenda and its getting tiresome. I would love Koji back, even with his slip ups.

[Eyrilona]

Ok, proof for any of these claim please?

Look for the (long!) MSQ playthrough from bilingual streamer and translation critic DoublePerfectKO on YouTube. You will have to have a lot of patience though, he doesn't make summaries and his streams average 4-7 hours a piece..

Good introduction is in his introductory video: "Everything You Know About FFXIV is Wrong: A Realm Rewritten"

[PercibelTheren]

The jobs are so dull and one dimensional because the players implicitly asked for it.

Which players? I keep seeing this argument yet I have never seen a significant amount of people asking for jobs to be braindead copies of each other. Are those players in the room with us right now?

Seriously, it is very hard to predict, whether the players will like a story or not. In DT, they tried something new and they failed.

Did they try something new? DT has another world-ending threat we have to deal with, one who is basically Emet Selch but with worse writing. It has a well-intentioned but inexperienced young person who wants to unite people, like Alphinaud was with his Crystal Braves, except Wuk Lamat's story is worse written and she faces no consequences for her foolish decisions. The theme of loss and having to let go has been something we've been getting beaten over the heads with since Shadowbringers.

I think a large part of people's anger is caused by the fact that the expansion was incredibly falsely advertised. The only one who got a vacation was Estinien and there was no rivalry between Scions.

[Larirawiel]

Which players?

These players, who start a whine thread and complain about it, that job X is unplayable now because job Y does 0.7675% more dps. SQEX listened to it and they removed almost all differences, which made the jobs somehow unique. And now, a job is only a skin over a role.

Did they try something new?

You are not the main character now. This is ... somehow new, yes.


Cheers

[PercibelTheren]

These players, who start a whine thread and complain about it, that job X is unplayable now because job Y does 0.7675% more dps. SQEX listened to it and they removed almost all differences, which made the jobs somehow unique. And now, a job is only a skin over a role.

So they made balancing easier on themselves by removing all the differences and somehow them being lazy is the players' fault. Got it.

[Larirawiel]

So they made balancing easier on themselves by removing all the differences and somehow them being lazy is the players' fault. Got it.

That's right. Because this is the only reliable way to get balancing right. Other games tried other approaches and failed.



Cheers

[genuine_stranger]

No--they told us it was a VACATION and has been anything BUT a vacation. It's just more work we have to do (and babysit at the same time). The Golden city was not anything at all worth mentioning because of how poor the direction of it was--and another world we have to either save or destroy because it wants to mess with the source. Japanese don't have a clue on what the word vacation is because they don't go on vacation. They work themselves to death and wonder where their lives went wrong since they turned 18 and could work for the first time.

Well, yes.

That's also the reason why so many JRPGs and anime are set in the high school setting.
It's basically the only time period they can look back on fondly, before they become cubicle salesmen.

I'm not saying that's the general rule of thumb, but it is the reason why so much media is set in the high school setting.

[Zelda206]

Honestly the comment sections here were a lot more stable and fair than I would have expected. Good job to all.
That being said, "what will be will be" (que sera sera). We'll see what we get and if the content is what we wish to personally invest in.
If it's all the same to you, I'd like some enriching balanced storytelling back in the game for villains and aspiring heroes alike. Some tactics games are simple in their stories and yet enriching all the same. I can see a vacation scenario where it could very well be interesting, adventurous and thrilling without it being an ouroboros of a certain golden cat telling us about the friendliest friendship to ever peace and harmony.

That and and the slow degradation of Job independence or uniqueness is slowly beginning to become more apparent with each new iteration (patch and/or expansion), so I'm hoping they can do something about that. They [Square] need to put more stock into their MMO if they want more money for their side-projects that seem to be hit-or-miss cases.