Allagans in Tural?

[Cleretic]

Unfortunately Allag gets treated like that is its story – the whole thousand years of its history revolving around being an evil empire from start to finish.

I wouldn't even mind that if we left War Crime R&D at some point and visited some other part of the evil empire.

Let's visit the remains of a resistance cell! Slums that stood the ravages of time better than the nobility somehow! 'Museum of Stuff We Stole'!

[Shuuchi]

I wouldn't even mind that if we left War Crime R&D at some point and visited some other part of the evil empire.

Let's visit the remains of a resistance cell! Slums that stood the ravages of time better than the nobility somehow! 'Museum of Stuff We Stole'!

Would be nice to not always be hyper focused on Allagan research facilities story-wise, ye.

That said, we do have a few pieces.
The Boarderland Ruins map can be consctruded as a major Allagan city given things like manors and markets.
The mechanical part of The Burn is a mining facility, filled with automated worker drones.
And Azys Lla has pieces of landmass ripped from Meracydia, flora and fauna along with.

There are a few scraps on how life was like back in the empire’s hay day through item texts and interactables in dungeons as well.

[Carin-Eri]

If there are links to the Allagans I rather hope that, if they appear, it's more toward the end of Dawntrail's story.

By all accounts Emet-Selch's suggestions (near the end of Endwalker) pertaining to where we should explore has become something of a 'tick-list' at this point, which means that we'll be visiting Meracydia at some point. And considering Meracydia's history it'd be difficult for any story there to not have a heavy Allagan influence.

[No_Nick_Needed]

I would not necesssarily say Allag was evil from start to finish, at least not with conviction.
We have heard that they went on a conquering spree under Xande, then declined for centuries and only went back to conquering, when Amon brought Xande back, via cloning. We know next to nothing about those times of not-Xande rule, both before his birth and the in-between period. Maybe the "decline", as seen from Amon's perspective, was them becoming peaceful and giving more rights and privileges to the conquered countries, which the hardliners saw as decadent weakness. Or it could be just a cavalcade of incompetence, with just as much evil intent behind it... we just don't know, but that also means there is plenty of open room for story-telling, if the writers want to explore it.

History does have a tendency to record the wars and catastrophes more than the times of peace and plenty.

As others said, with how important their conflict with Allag was, we will almost asuredly hear of them, once we go to Meracydia. Maybe we'll learn what they did in Tural, and more interestingly, why they stopped after taking only parts of it. Were they just not interested in the land, too preoccupied with their home content and Meracydia, or did something stop their expansion into the rest of Tural? Or was it just timing, with them just barely stepping onto Tural, when their decline started.

[MikkoAkure]

I would not necesssarily say Allag was evil from start to finish, at least not with conviction.
We have heard that they went on a conquering spree under Xande, then declined for centuries and only went back to conquering, when Amon brought Xande back, via cloning. We know next to nothing about those times of not-Xande rule, both before his birth and the in-between period. Maybe the "decline", as seen from Amon's perspective, was them becoming peaceful and giving more rights and privileges to the conquered countries, which the hardliners saw as decadent weakness. Or it could be just a cavalcade of incompetence, with just as much evil intent behind it... we just don't know, but that also means there is plenty of open room for story-telling, if the writers want to explore it.

History does have a tendency to record the wars and catastrophes more than the times of peace and plenty.

There was nothing of Allag before Xande's birth because he was its genesis. As for after Xande, the EE says that the subsequent emperors after his passing continued conquering, it wasn't just Xande who did that. They only stopped when there was nothing left to conquer on the Three Great Continents.

The book goes on to say that after that there was 300 years of peace and prosperity, though we know the empire lasted ~1000 years so only a smaller portion of it was actually peaceful. The empire started to decline after that 300 years. Suicide rates went up, birth rates plummeted, rebellions sprouted where there were bad leaders. And we don't know how good it was for everyone. We already know that the Allagans were prejudiced against Miqo'te and initially kicked them out of Eorzea to Corvos, where they still remain (and before the area had any revealed recorded history of proto-Garleans).

The empire was created and manipulated by the Ascians just like the Garlean Empire, to be lifted up to as great heights as possible, for it to come crashing down with such force that it breaks the world and eats another. Some individuals within the empire may certainly have had good intentions, but the empire as a whole was built for evil purpose and it can't just be pinned on Xande since his descendants perpetuated it, at least for a time.

[Zero-ELEC]

There was nothing of Allag before Xande's birth because he was its genesis. As for after Xande, the EE says that the subsequent emperors after his passing continued conquering, it wasn't just Xande who did that. They only stopped when there was nothing left to conquer on the Three Great Continents.

The book goes on to say that after that there was 300 years of peace and prosperity, though we know the empire lasted ~1000 years so only a smaller portion of it was actually peaceful. The empire started to decline after that 300 years. Suicide rates went up, birth rates plummeted, rebellions sprouted where there were bad leaders. And we don't know how good it was for everyone. We already know that the Allagans were prejudiced against Miqo'te and initially kicked them out of Eorzea to Corvos, where they still remain (and before the area had any revealed recorded history of proto-Garleans).

The empire was created and manipulated by the Ascians just like the Garlean Empire, to be lifted up to as great heights as possible, for it to come crashing down with such force that it breaks the world and eats another. Some individuals within the empire may certainly have had good intentions, but the empire as a whole was built for evil purpose and it can't just be pinned on Xande since his descendants perpetuated it, at least for a time.

We have to keep in mind that we actually know that Allag existed before it was an Empire. Their knowledge of summoning came from before those times, way before their aetherochemical revolution, when they were menaced by people who invoked eikons.

[MikkoAkure]

We have to keep in mind that we actually know that Allag existed before it was an Empire. Their knowledge of summoning came from before those times, way before their aetherochemical revolution, when they were menaced by people who invoked eikons.

I think you might be misremembering. Allag started with Xande as an empire and the first thing he did was to collect mages for his army to conquer Eorzea.

"Xande used his uncanny intelligence and charisma to build a nation that, while founded in science, did not deny the magic of the Second Astral Era."
"In less than a year, Allag was the largest nation in Eorzea and Xande crowned himself emperor."

Allag wasn't the victim being menaced by people with eikons, they were the ones menacing people who had eikons. And according to the EE, Aetherochemistry was a thing during Xande's time at the very beginning of the Allagan Empire. It's just that everything we're used to seeing of it is from the Late Allagan, during Amon's time. Amon was from 1000 years after Xande but it was an aetherochemical empire from the very beginning. The Third Astral Era was founded on science and eschewed magic, but it was Xande who brought magic and science together.

[Cleretic]

I think you might be misremembering. Allag started with Xande as an empire and the first thing he did was to collect mages for his army to conquer Eorzea.

"Xande used his uncanny intelligence and charisma to build a nation that, while founded in science, did not deny the magic of the Second Astral Era."
"In less than a year, Allag was the largest nation in Eorzea and Xande crowned himself emperor."

This is a bit of an interesting passage, becuase if we take it literally then it's... sort of impossible? Like, you can't just come out the gate and found an empire day one; typically, a nation of another type becomes an empire, usually by conquering other nations. For some in-game-rooted examples, the Roman Empire has an origin pretty close to Garlemald, where a republic became an empire under one guy deciding to do things differently. The Mongol Empire started when the guy we know as Genghis Khan was elected leader of a bunch of different tribes, which you could potentially read as similar to Gulool Ja Ja (but I would argue probably isn't an especially accurate reading of either figure).

Put simply: there's no way that we aren't missing details here, because the founding of empires just don't work the way that the EE1 describes Allag's origins. What those details are, I couldn't tell you. My honest best guess is that Allag maybe started similar to the Mongols, as a pile of disparate tribes unified under one banner, but that's based on a reading of one sentence in the EE1.

[Zero-ELEC]

I think you might be misremembering. Allag started with Xande as an empire and the first thing he did was to collect mages for his army to conquer Eorzea.

"Xande used his uncanny intelligence and charisma to build a nation that, while founded in science, did not deny the magic of the Second Astral Era."
"In less than a year, Allag was the largest nation in Eorzea and Xande crowned himself emperor."

Allag wasn't the victim being menaced by people with eikons, they were the ones menacing people who had eikons. And according to the EE, Aetherochemistry was a thing during Xande's time at the very beginning of the Allagan Empire. It's just that everything we're used to seeing of it is from the Late Allagan, during Amon's time. Amon was from 1000 years after Xande but it was an aetherochemical empire from the very beginning. The Third Astral Era was founded on science and eschewed magic, but it was Xande who brought magic and science together.

See, because, Principia implies that it wasn't quite like that

Principia: In the beginning, the Allagans rose to superiority through their mastery of magecraft. It is told that the very first wielders of summoning magic made do with grimoires fashioned of leather and ink and parchment.

[Aneshda]

At this Point, I would love a full Allagan Expansion everything is better as DawnTrail.