Cloud PFs breaking TOS? Public statement is needed.

[Riletz]

Hundreds of Cloud of Darkness PFs have formed and filled in the past week or so with this line of text: "10+ clears, will check."
There is no achievement for clear counts higher than 1, and they are not lying (give it a try, you'll get kicked). We all know what this is and how it's done. Very simple question then. Is it okay or not?
Last I checked, you can't kick grey parsers from Savage PFs. It's considered harassment. Yet somehow this is fine? It's hard to turn a blind eye when the problem is bright as the sun, Square Enix. Even Crystal's posting these PFs. Weigh in already.

[Arohk]

So you join a party with specific requirements you do not meet and complain you get kicked?

Do you also join a "kill party" when you have 0 experience in the fight at all?

[Voryn]

So you join a party with specific requirements you do not meet and complain you get kicked?

Parties having requirements of some sort is totally fine and necessary. We can put Duty Complete and item level requirements on our party finder groups after all. But it’s technically not allowed by the rules to make statements about why people are being excluded. We can see it the list of prohibited activities https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...=68216&id=5382

(Please excuse my formatting, I’m not that familiar with the forums yet)

The section on Nuisance Behavior includes the following:

Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.

It is prohibited to make statements such as the following examples to try to kick someone from the party, content, community, etc. as if they are not qualified to participate. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

"If you can't do the mechanic well, maybe you shouldn't bother joining the party."
"If you're going to talk like that, why don't you just quit?"
"If you don't understand that, you'd be wise to leave the party."
"Let's ignore them."
"Let’s leave [person] out."
"It's not worth wasting our time, you should quit."
"Don't join if your equipment is that bad/such a low item level."

So we can’t tell people they can’t participate for X or Y reason. Even though it is a little funny that one of these (item level) is a restriction that’s built into the game itself. So the situation is that the rules disallow us from saying “don’t join without 10+ kills” regardless of where the information is coming from.. The “legal” way might be to just kick people without giving a reason, even if that’s arguably either equally or more rude.

[AvoSturmfaust]

When do you get that Square isnt really caring about that stuff? They do it sometimes to "keep the shine of caring" but they actually really dont do it

[Riletz]

So you join a party with specific requirements you do not meet and complain you get kicked?

Do you also join a "kill party" when you have 0 experience in the fight at all?

You've completely missed the point. I am not complaining for my own personal gain. I do not like the gatekeeping this two-faced community is doing on content that was specifically designed with the intent of introducing new players to difficult concepts. This is a huge, cascading problem for Final Fantasy XIV. The players who know how to play are insulating themselves in a shrinking bubble. There are people, many people, who will never touch Chaotic again— or worse, at all— because of the North American Data Center and its insistence on shoving out the inexperienced. Yes, the bodycheck is stupid. No, it isn't an excuse for this behavior.
If parse checking in Party Finder is not only tolerated but popular, we're entering very dark days for this game.

[ViinaS]

content that was specifically designed with the intent of introducing new players to difficult concepts.

One thing tho, Chaotic is definitely not for introducing new players to difficult content. They said it would be but screwed up massively. Making it a 24 man Savage instead.

It's far from that as it is super punishing to 23 people if one person screws up.

Heck due to 24 people I'd say our current Savage tier is a better point to get people into hardcore content than Chaotic.

[Valence]

That's where it becomes interesting right? I'm not sure to be comfortable with PFs specifically checking third party log websites as an added entry bar, but on the other hand, what happens with static recruitment? Almost all of them ask for logs. And even if they do enforce the TOS, what does prevent PF leaders to just kick people without any explanation even if they can't add log requirements in their description?

The real question is more about fflogs on an ethical level in the first place, let's be honest a minute.

[Arohk]

content that was specifically designed with the intent of introducing new players to difficult concepts.

This is definitely NOT content designed for beginners, this is above Extreme Trial level difficulty, with very punishing mechanics, that are also hard to recover from.
People die and spawn at the wrong side of the room, you can rezz them but hey can't get back to their position, then when the player swap happens and someone is dead or at the wrong spot the entire thing falls apart.
At least in savage you wipe instantly, but in this fight it can drag along for minutes rying to rezz people but it is already lost.

When i killed Zoral ja on EX, i took me TWO attempts to clear, but this 24 man thing took me three evenings and at least 10 different parties.

[PercibelTheren]

So you join a party with specific requirements you do not meet and complain you get kicked?

Do you also join a "kill party" when you have 0 experience in the fight at all?

The issue here is that they are very openly using third party websites that are against the ToS. The policy is explicitly "it's fine to parse as long as you keep it to yourself and don't use it to exclude people".

[Arohk]

The issue here is that they are very openly using third party websites that are against the ToS. The policy is explicitly "it's fine to parse as long as you keep it to yourself and don't use it to exclude people".

in the end it is SE'S fault for making the fight so punishing that one mistake can wipe 24 people, it is only natural that people want to filter out bad players, or you jsut waste your time trying to kill the boss.