Please don’t rework old content willy nilly

[LittleImp]

I dislike modern dungeon design, but I don't dislike it enough to pretend that Halatali is a good dungeon.

[Doopliss]

I'm really glad I'm not the only one who was super duper bothered by this. Many of my fondest memories of this game are from things that were only possible to experience during 2.x through 3.x, and I really like seeing remnants of those days still...exist, you know?

When I level my alts, some of my favorite parts of the leveling process are the earliest set of dungeons (I personally felt like EW had some of the worst paced and most soulless design of the bunch....DT is thankfully a little better). Reworking Halatali just felt a little absurd and pointless to me, and, I dunno, I think, again, having remnants of the past stick around in a live service game/MMO is generally a kind of cool aspect.

Also, I just think the reworked versions of dungeons are less fun. I did Sohm Al on my Hrothgar alt recently, and realized how much I used to like tanking that dungeon, because I had to actually think about mob positioning in normal pulls. Now I can just stop where the wall ends, like every other dungeon, and not need to think. I know it's a small thing, but small things add to engagement...

[fulminating]

I dislike modern dungeon design, but I don't dislike it enough to pretend that Halatali is a good dungeon.

I don’t think it matters if halatali etc are good or not, just having a bit of variety takes the edge off the monotony. You’ll hate even your favourite food if you have it every day for every meal. There’s also the actually cool final boss solos in stone vigil hard and cutter’s cry - who hasn’t ended up seeing or doing the last 20% on a black mage or monk? There’s not much to it, but it was still cool seeing a random sprout bard finishing off both diresaurs(the bipedal dragon guys with no aggro table and the claw/tail/fireball/charge moveset) after the healer lagged into a tail.

[lolnotacat]

I think they're really hit or miss with some of the changes to old content.

Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak? Definitely an improvement.

Good King Moogle Mog XII? Changed one of my favorite 2.0 fights to one of my least favorite.

[kiotsukete]

I agree, reworking old non-MSQ dungeons so that Duty Support AI bots can do them would take away the few remaining unique mechanics left and for what? More homogeneous dungeon design?

The official LL digest even said adding duty support would be “quite the undertaking.” Allocating dev time to this seems like such a waste of limited resources when there are so many more important issues in FF14 that should be higher priority than this.

Who was even asking for this? Non MSQ dungeons are already covered by leveling and high level roulettes. Are new players actually having a hard time finding a DF group to run Halatali with?

If so, why not devote the dev time to implement duty support to instead create incentives for established players to run non MSQ dungeons to encourage more interactions within the player base, like you would expect in a MMO?

TLDR: If sprouts unable to find DF groups for non MSQ dungeons really is a problem in need of a solution, at least let the solution be something other than making FF14 even more into a single player RPG than it already is, that doesn’t take away the few unique mechanics left or divert dev resources away from more important issues.

[CuteBucket]

I have mixed feelings about this. :/

One one hand, I think we need to be willing to take the nostalgia goggles off a moment here and be honest with some of these old dungeon designs. Frankly, I don't miss old Toto-rak one bit. There is no joy in exploring it, it's just a waste of time, and when you get the dungeon in roulettes very commonly, especially when you're a sprout leveling, any "fun" that could be had by exploration quickly drained away as you just tried to get out of there as fast as possible and tried not to miss another stupid photocell. Then you were forced to wade through the goop at the end which slowed everyone down for no reason. I hated it so, so much. Part of the reason dungeons are streamlined is because of the daily roulette system they set up to run them over and over and over again. Any sort of exploration or puzzle the early dungeons had loses all of its fun and becomes annoying and tedious to deal with very, very quickly when you are forced to run it constantly. I did all the puzzles in Sunken Temple of Qarn ONCE to get the map unlocked and never did it again. People don't even bother collecting the pickups and unlocking the side doors to get the keys because it's literally faster and easier to just trigger the trap at the end and fight another mob than it is to detour and do the dungeon "correctly." Maybe it's "quaint" or "nostalgic" but it's not good dungeon design for a multiplayer mode where people must play the same maps again and again. I don't like most of the old ARR dungeons and dread getting them in dungeon roulettes. Halatali being one of my least favorite, tbh. I won't miss it when it's gone, the same way I don't miss old Toto-rak or old Copperbell. I think Variant Dungeons are where the puzzle elements and multiple play-thrus to see everything shine much better than standard dungeons that get spammed in roulettes every day.

But on the other hand... These are all optional dungeons. They aren't needed to progress the story, so...why mess with them now? And take dev time away from other game play elements that could be worked on instead? This really doesn't feel like a priority at all considering the state of the game, and I have no idea who wanted or asked for this, as it's certainly not anything I've seen come up on these forums or the other FFXIV spaces I frequent. New players can already complete the MSQ with all Duty Support NPCs. Is it really needed in every single dungeon? As much as I hate getting Stone Vigil Hard yet again in cap dungeons roulette, I've never thought, "I hope they redo this dungeon," I just sigh and carry on.

If SE insists on this course, surely there can be a compromise between old and new design? Haukke Manor did a good job on that front, I felt. Aurum Vale should still be difficult to pull everything in the first room, for instance, or it's just not Aurum Vale anymore. I think if handled well, it can be done in a way that respects the old mechanics while making the experience less janky, but...I dunno how much I trust them to do that...

[Mecia]

Please rework CT all willy nilly.

[Daralii]

I have mixed feelings about this. :/
But on the other hand... These are all optional dungeons. They aren't needed to progress the story, so...why mess with them now? And take dev time away from other game play elements that could be worked on instead? This really doesn't feel like a priority at all considering the state of the game, and I have no idea who wanted or asked for this, as it's certainly not anything I've seen come up on these forums or the other FFXIV spaces I frequent. New players can already complete the MSQ with all Duty Support NPCs. Is it really needed in every single dungeon? As much as I hate getting Stone Vigil Hard yet again in cap dungeons roulette, I've never thought, "I hope they redo this dungeon," I just sigh and carry on.

If SE insists on this course, surely there can be a compromise between old and new design? Haukke Manor did a good job on that front, I felt. Aurum Vale should still be difficult to pull everything in the first room, for instance, or it's just not Aurum Vale anymore. I think if handled well, it can be done in a way that respects the old mechanics while making the experience less janky, but...I dunno how much I trust them to do that...

My guess is that they have data showing a lot of people leaving those dungeons as soon as they get it in roulette(I've seen it happen a lot in Dzemael Darkhold), but it definitely shouldn't be a priority, especially when Yoshida makes it sound like a significant undertaking. There are many bigger fish to fry.

[TheGrimace]

Please rework CT all willy nilly.

CT is the set of dungeons that need updated the most, given their heavy frequency. I would atleast be happy if they would enforce a stricter ilevel maximum. Labyrinth of the Ancients and Syrcus Tower would still be easy, but maybe we'd actually see attacks like Bacon Waves on Phlegethon again.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I don't understand what's their priority at this point. Why, an optional dungeon, the ones that sprouts tend to overlook even needs a revamping?

Glad I just finished the Dear Leader achievement not too long ago by skipping mobs with AST's Lightspeed+Repose in Halatali. Gonna miss all the tiny funny gimmicks.