Tell me stories when a mentor hurt you.

[TomsYoungerBro]

The problem is people taking the "mentor" system 100x more seriously than the game even does. You all project what you think it should be instead of basing opinions in the reality of what it is. There's nothing wrong with it.

1.Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players

With the current requirements, mentors are not equipped to give proper gameplay advice to new players. Many mentors don't even know how to properly play their main class, let alone a general understanding of how to play each role (dps, tank, healer).


2. Be an exemplar for player ettiquette

How is this properly measured to see that mentors can fulfill this expectation? If Novice Network is a gauge, it seems the system has failed that check pretty badly.


3.Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network, and answer their queries in the chat channel.

Mentors themselves have outed Novice Network as having major problems on different world servers. How is this being handled properly in the current system if the OP of this thread himself called NN a cesspool?


How can you honestly say there is nothing wrong with this system?

[Ristee]

In my opinion the mentor rewards shouldn't exist, you should help sprouts if you genuinely want to help and not so you can get some shiny rewards

[Len_]

1.Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players

With the current requirements, mentors are not equipped to give proper gameplay advice to new players. Many mentors don't even know how to properly play their main class, let alone a general understanding of how to play each role (dps, tank, healer).


2. Be an exemplar for player ettiquette

How is this properly measured to see that mentors can fulfill this expectation? If Novice Network is a gauge, it seems the system has failed that check pretty badly.


3.Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network, and answer their queries in the chat channel.

Mentors themselves have outed Novice Network as having major problems on different world servers. How is this being handled properly in the current system if the OP of this thread himself called NN a cesspool?


How can you honestly say there is nothing wrong with this system?

1. Mentors can give advice about things they know about. The requirement/expectation as stated is not that you know everything about the game and be able to answer absolutely any question.
2. The system did not fail just because you don't like how some players are chatting with each other. The system has no enforcement mechanism by design because it's voluntary and NOT THAT SERIOUS. It can't fail a check that never existed. Your subjective approval is not a legitimate "check."
3. Inviting players to Novice Network has nothing to do with whether anyone feels it has "problems." You're expected to invite people to it, not curate the experience of everyone else in it to some nebulous subjective standard of not having "problems."

Hope that helps.

[Jeeqbit]

With the current requirements, mentors are not equipped to give proper gameplay advice to new players. Many mentors don't even know how to properly play their main class, let alone a general understanding of how to play each role (dps, tank, healer).

In my experience, battle mentors understand things when I put them under stress in dungeons. For example, if I do certain optional nuances in a dungeon or put stress on their role, they show they know exactly what I'm doing and handle it.

They have to complete role quests that are meant to test those roles as well.

In any case, it's not necessarily referring to class/job advice. Most sprouts want to know how to get their first mount, what items they can delete from their inventory, how their Sastasha rotation works, etc.

If they are a crafter/gatherer mentor, the gameplay advice refers more to crafting/gatherering as well since these players are often not nearly as experienced. Which is a problem.

I'm for stricter requirements though. They should have to level all class/jobs for their respective mentor type (all battle job or all crafters/gatherers) so they have a wider variety of experience.

If Novice Network is a gauge, it seems the system has failed that check pretty badly.

Not really. There are maybe 1 or 2 people that behave poorly in a novice network sometimes, but usually people just answer sprout/returner questions. We shouldn't let the minority who spoil it give mentors a bad name. We do need a better solution to get mentors with poor behaviour removed from the Novice Network though.

[TomsYoungerBro]

1. Mentors can give advice about things they know about. The requirement/expectation as stated is not that you know everything about the game and be able to answer absolutely any question.

Mentors have given plenty of advice about things they don't know about. Is that an issue, and how is that being addressed? I don't think the bar of "general understanding" of how each role plays is a high bar (or a know it all level). The requirements for mentors don't even require a general level of knowledge. Your "view" of a mentor is less not that serious and more like utterly useless.

2. The system did not fail just because you don't like how some players are chatting with each other. The system has no enforcement mechanism by design because it's voluntary and NOT THAT SERIOUS. It can't fail a check that never existed. Your subjective approval is not a legitimate "check."

I am only going off the testimonials of other mentors who have experienced the issues with Novice Network and the toxic mentors in there. I am not a mentor, so it's not my subjective "view" and experience. If you asked Yoshi P this question, do you honestly think he would line up with your subjective "view"?

3. Inviting players to Novice Network has nothing to do with whether anyone feels it has "problems." You're expected to invite people to it, not curate the experience of everyone else in it to some nebulous subjective standard of not having "problems."

Its as if you just ignored the second half "and answer their queries in the chat channel". There is a level of expectation when it comes to curating the experience of newcomers in the Novice Network, but sure keep ignoring whatever helps your argument.

[Picothea]

I think there is a fundamental problem in these discussions where it is assumed the role of mentor should be an award, an indicator of progress, or something similar. This line of thinking isn't productive for the purpose of assisting new players.
There's nothing wrong with expecting mentors to put in effort for new players, because they have signed up for this idea not once, but twice.

Becoming certified as a mentor is one thing. Should you wish to take a break, you can hide your crown.
Signing up for Mentor Roulette means you have no excuse. If you have a crown in a duty, I expect you to be helpful to the sprouts and beware of potential wipes- something a mentor has never done when I have met them.

[Len_]

Mentors have given plenty of advice about things they don't know about. Is that an issue, and how is that being addressed? I don't think the bar of "general understanding" of how each role plays is a high bar (or a know it all level). The requirements for mentors don't even require a general level of knowledge. Your "view" of a mentor is less not that serious and more like utterly useless.




I am only going off the testimonials of other mentors who have experienced the issues with Novice Network and the toxic mentors in there. I am not a mentor, so it's not my subjective "view" and experience. If you asked Yoshi P this question, do you honestly think he would line up with your subjective "view"?




Its as if you just ignored the second half "and answer their queries in the chat channel". There is a level of expectation when it comes to curating the experience of newcomers in the Novice Network, but sure keep ignoring whatever helps your argument.

You're the exact kind of person I'm talking about when I made my initial point. My view isn't subjective. The expectations for being a mentor are exactly as specific as the developers wanted them to be. The system is what it is. You don't like it so you think it's a problem. My view isn't that mentors are useless, my view is that mentors are what the game says they are. If YOU deem that to be useless that's your problem.

[Astronis]

1. Mentors can give advice about things they know about. The requirement/expectation as stated is not that you know everything about the game and be able to answer absolutely any question.
2. The system did not fail just because you don't like how some players are chatting with each other. The system has no enforcement mechanism by design because it's voluntary and NOT THAT SERIOUS. It can't fail a check that never existed. Your subjective approval is not a legitimate "check."
3. Inviting players to Novice Network has nothing to do with whether anyone feels it has "problems." You're expected to invite people to it, not curate the experience of everyone else in it to some nebulous subjective standard of not having "problems."

Hope that helps.

This is correct. Mentors are not expected by SE to know the ins and outs of their main job or how to execute a proper opener. "Gameplay advice" covers things like, "What is a stack marker?" and "How do I set my Return point?" and "What does the sparkle mean on a gathering node icon?" Mentors can advise beyond those sorts of things, but they aren't expected to.

Anyone who expects more from that out of any given mentor is wanting more from the role than it is meant to provide.

In my experience, battle mentors understand things when I put them under stress in dungeons. For example, if I do certain optional nuances in a dungeon or put stress on their role, they show they know exactly what I'm doing and handle it.

Any battle mentor you meet in an instance is probably there via Mentor Roulette, and that's a much stricter filter. I think it's fair to have higher expectations of specifically battle mentors in instances because of that. That they will, in general, play relatively well and can probably explain some mechanics and whatnot. That doesn't mean they'll offer up anything unprompted, but if asked they ought to be able to answer combat questions.

[Jeeqbit]

Signing up for Mentor Roulette means you have no excuse. If you have a crown in a duty, I expect you to be helpful to the sprouts and beware of potential wipes- something a mentor has never done when I have met them.

I've seen it plenty of times.

I can't speak for others, but I am "aware" of potential wipes and take precautions if I see that it is their first time, such as pre-emptively applying mitigation in advance of a common mistake made by sprouts that results in higher incoming damage.

[TomsYoungerBro]

You're the exact kind of person I'm talking about when I made my initial point. My view isn't subjective. The expectations for being a mentor are exactly as specific as the developers wanted them to be. The system is what it is. You don't like it so you think it's a problem. My view isn't that mentors are useless, my view is that mentors are what the game says they are. If YOU deem that to be useless that's your problem.

Your view is flat out wrong even if you try to do a bare-minimum comparison to what the game expects. I literally pointed that out in my last comment, but you ignored it...again. Toxic mentors in Novice Network is not what the game expects of the mentorship program either. No Dev wants to prop up toxic players to their newbies. I'm just gonna assume you are trolling at this point .