Grinding in FFXIV vs Other MMOs

[SieyaM]

The grind in other MMOs is a form of time gating and in some cases in kind of turns into something of a hostage situation. If you decide for whatever reason to not log in for a week or two then you are forever behind, so you must log in daily and weekly in order to keep up to access new content.

[Ardeth]

I feel like theres a cultural difference between MMO players. Some like to earn their stuff with effort, grind, rng and participation, a pathway.

Some want their dopamine hit right now and everything right now, without effort, just participation and showing up.

Playground vs earning it. Both are fine. But I dont think CHORES please either demographic.

Leveling is a dumb concept and just for show in FFXIV. Theres 0 meat to it. Its just about the destination not the journey. Same with the "do 500000000 pvp matches over 10 years to get a title" gearing is worhtless too. Its just for show. So are the stats aside for the min maxers

For me it's if I do the thing and the bar doesn't move, it makes me upset. I have no issue with something taking a month to do. If the progression feels meaningful. Like Bozja and Eureka suck. Because the max level feels like I'm climbing a hill made of sand. I make slight progress. I put in 2 hours, and my return in the end is almost meaningless. I'm going to eventually make it, but it's agonizing to deal with. That's the kind of stuff I absolutely hate in most games and this game. 100 pvp wins for a coat that you can't even dye is ridiculous. Considering you can't call on that being 100 games or 10,000 games. It makes me resent them more than think of it as some kind of long-term goal.

But to me, Bozja and Eureka are prime examples of a terrible system of leveling being added as something to do. Something that punishes you for trial and error and exploration. Ironically, the exploratory zones punish you for exploring and taking risks, but just the fact that right now at level 21 in Zadnor, the experience gain is so bad it's burning me out. The zones are dead, and even DC is hoping I can't seem to find anyone doing Z2 or even grinding FATEs it's just dead. It's content death. To me, that's bad content. When I start thinking, SquareEnix should put it on the cash shop to ease my suffering. When the game becomes a prison. Everyone likes to immediately assume everyone just wants things for nothing, but I just want things to respect my time. When the grind becomes a chore, you have failed as a game developer.

[Sunako]

gearing is worhtless too. Its just for show. So are the stats aside for the min maxers

I think gearing have that purpose, if you can not clear the fight during first week, you can get little bit handicap every week by having more gear. People who play optimally, can clear everything with entry level gear. People who are less skilled, can still clear the same content later with more gear. That way same content can serve people with different skill levels.

[BabyYoda]

For me it's if I do the thing and the bar doesn't move, it makes me upset. I have no issue with something taking a month to do. If the progression feels meaningful. Like Bozja and Eureka suck. Because the max level feels like I'm climbing a hill made of sand. I make slight progress. I put in 2 hours, and my return in the end is almost meaningless. I'm going to eventually make it, but it's agonizing to deal with. That's the kind of stuff I absolutely hate in most games and this game. 100 pvp wins for a coat that you can't even dye is ridiculous. Considering you can't call on that being 100 games or 10,000 games. It makes me resent them more than think of it as some kind of long-term goal.

But to me, Bozja and Eureka are prime examples of a terrible system of leveling being added as something to do. Something that punishes you for trial and error and exploration. Ironically, the exploratory zones punish you for exploring and taking risks, but just the fact that right now at level 21 in Zadnor, the experience gain is so bad it's burning me out. The zones are dead, and even DC is hoping I can't seem to find anyone doing Z2 or even grinding FATEs it's just dead. It's content death. To me, that's bad content. When I start thinking, SquareEnix should put it on the cash shop to ease my suffering. When the game becomes a prison. Everyone likes to immediately assume everyone just wants things for nothing, but I just want things to respect my time. When the grind becomes a chore, you have failed as a game developer.

I know Yoshi one day will stop doing exploration zone because "people don't like it so we remove it" and you will find people who praise Yoshi P decision because yes he is right many people don't like it you know why? "re-inventing the wheel" trying to do something not different but worst.. like how other systems in the game that has been removed for the same reason "people don't like it" yes they don't like how you approach things trying to re-inventing the wheel people like how formula of exploration dungeons, areas in other games.. just copy paste like how FFXIV 2.0 copy paste WoW for their good systems

[BabyYoda]

I think gearing have that purpose, if you can not clear the fight during first week, you can get little bit handicap every week by having more gear. People who play optimally, can clear everything with entry level gear. People who are less skilled, can still clear the same content later with more gear. That way same content can serve people with different skill levels.

I guess most PCT players are skilled and MCH players are just bad players from your assumption

[Sunako]

I guess most PCT players are skilled and MCH players are just bad players from your assumption

What gear system has anything to do with job balance or job popularity? This same system existed in several extensions before the PCT even existed. If the job balance makes you bitter, you should talk about it in another thread instead of derailing this one.

[AnimaAnimus]

I wish they would go back to the FFXI mindset and instead of having weekly lock outs it was by timers. Complete X content, can go again in 48 hours. But they also made that work by not making a single piece of content outdated (until they dropped the abyssea bomb that is and destroyed 10 years of good will and hard work overnight) because absolutely everything you earned was still useful in some way or another. Like Relic weapons not outdating when Mythrics were introduced. Then Relic and Mythic weapons not outdating when Empys were introduced and so on. I would gladly do more ARR relics if I could use them for more than just glam. They are the nicest looking ones out of them all, but I really hate spending that much time and gil on what turns out to be just a glam piece. let me further upgrade these too!

I also wish there was a better level grind than just roulettes or fates. Fates are catatonically boring since they haven't changed or added anything new since ARR and even then they were so boring a whole lot of ppl just botted them, like they still do today because the content is so lackluster and mind numbing. And for what, a few levels and a mount... Meanwhile roulettes, even on aether, you sometimes have to wait 45 minutes for a single run. And as someone who has been leveling, the skill level of players is dropping harder and harder with every week to the point that I just simply leave before the first boss because my back is sore from all the carrying Ive been doing lately. Literally got a run yesterday in the lvl 97 dungeon where the tank opened with that "Hello everyone, How are my cuties today! UwU" junk (which makes me instantly dislike you anyway) then single pack pulled. I immediately left after pull 1.

Glam is a big problem too. They give us grinds, but its just for glams. whoop de freakin doo Forcing a grind for glam items just feels absolutely pointless for a whole large chunk of the playerbase and those who could be.

Said grinds are always just on single bosses in square or circle arenas too. Even our "raids" are just a series of single bosses. Or worse...Fates, "but these ones are totally different guys we swear! Now go do the same fates you have been doing for 14 years but this time with 2 new actions woooooo!" At least in XI they were smart enough to give us huge raids with vastly different mechanics and objectives where even the trash mobs had a chance at dropping something worthwhile and therefore were worthwhile to grind. They really really need to be more creative. This is SE for crying out loud. They used to lead the pack. Now though, not so much.

[Kuroka]

Or make that progress matter more, but you'd have gatekeeping either way.

I just don't see much of a future in it with these developers. All we really have to look forward to as casuals is content that people hated. I know now people who jump to defend it, but people hated Eureka. People hated Bozja. They will hate the new one. Islands launched as this hyper casual content. People hated it. Could we expand on it and fix it? Nope, just make a new one.

I just can't see this development team being that competent. I'm sorry, I just can't. Exploratory zone 3.0 is just going to be the same boring grindy convaluted mess that it always is. Please look forward to it!

To me Bozja felt like the downgrade compared to Eureka... it hat its nice parts but overall.... meh. And the NEED to stop with the "do xyz 200x" grinds...

The first Eureka part was actually fun at times, but we didnt play as they wanted so they slowed us down by force for the 2nd part... I do think theyre competent, but either theyre being held back, or just drop the ball themselves...

[Reimmi]

I dislike grinding for power in any mmo
but i love grinding for cosmetics and money

[Hallarem]

Honestly just remove leveling. Its just empty numbers. We all know theres no journey or flavor in gaining levels. Its just busy work and gatekeeping your latest flashy cinematic moves you need to cram i to your already bloated rotation in the latest expansion.